This is one aspect of traditional astrology that stumps me. I have ideas of how these work and whatnot, but that's all they are; ideas. So, I have a couple of questions when it comes to the cosignificators William Lilly lists us (Saturn cosignfies the First, Jupiter the Second, Mars the Third, etc, etc, etc,).

First question, what is the logic behind these connections? Now at first I do see the obvious pattern involved in listing the planet-house connection in this way. Saturn as the first planet, Jupiter the second, going down through the geocentric view of the universe to Luna and then starting back over again, but I was wondering if there was some deeper logic to these associations rather than "Oh, Saturn's just the first planet, so it connects to the first house."

Second question, how is this used? Personally I took it literally. "Co-significator" to signify as well. So, the "accidental lord" of the house (the planet that rules the Sign on the cusp of such and such house) - such as Jupiter "accidentally" ruling the First house if Pisces rises - would have the most say about subjects concerning a house. Whereas the natural co-significator of this house may have something else to say to add in more details of the situation. Am I at least close here or am I going the complete wrong way?

Help, please. ^.^'

Hi Sei no Senshi,

Bonatti writes about this in his Book of Astronomy. He says that ?Saturn is in the first circle of the planets . . . and it?s the first one who exercises his operation in a conceived child after the falling of the seed into the womb, by binding and uniting together the matter from which the conceived child is formed.? Then ?Jupiter . . . is the second planet who exercises his own operation in a conceived child, namely by bestowing spirit and life to it.? And then ?Mars is . . . the significator of brothers, because brothers are the third accident which happens to a native after conception??. And then ?the Sun is naturally a significator of fathers, because the 4th house is the significator of fathers, and the Sun is the fourth planet from Saturn . . . he is the fourth planet who exercises his own operation in the conceived child . . . in giving spirit and official members to the conceived child, and vital soul and the features of the face.". And so on. (excerpts from Bonatti: Book of Astronomy, translated by Ben Dykes). The soul kind of falls through the planetary spheres into an incarnation.

Maybe these are not meant to be taken very literally. I would look more to the planetary joys, Mercury having its joy in the 1st house, Jupiter in the 2nd, Venus in the 5th, Mars in the 6th, the Sun in the 9th , Jupiter in the 11th and Saturn in the 12th.

Thanks for your reply, Papretis.

Yes, I knew there was more emphasis or significance to the joys than the co-significators, I was just wondering what that philosophy was, and you've helped me out with that. I'll definitely have to add Bonatti's book to my list.

Secondly, I meant to add Deb's Book, The Houses Temples of the Sky as must reading for a full understanding of the meanings of the houses and their origins.

Yes, I did grab this book and I learned a heck of a lot from it, but I was a little disheartened when the co-significators weren't really discussed, there just seems to be a passing mention of them, seems to just simply identify them and get them out there on pg. XIV of the introduction.

Thank you for your reply, I learned something new today and I'll definitely add Frawley's book to my list as well.

Tom, correct me if I'm worng, but the Chaldean order states that the Sun actually co-rules the 11th and Venus the 12th, no?

I always got bugged by that order, since I've never seen the mathematical explanation for it (althought some said it exists) and by the fact that it is not simetrical (Sun gets two houses, Luna and Mercury only one). Where comes Venus rulership over 11th and Mercury over 12th?

Tom, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chaldean order states that the Sun actually co-rules the 11th and Venus the 12th, no?

I've never read that. Perhaps someone knows of a source that makes this claim.

Tom

I don?t know if "co-rules" is the exact concept, but yes, there is an affinity between the planets and the houses acc to the chaldean order.

So, the first house and eight is saturn, then the second and nine is Jupiter, etc.