Pending crisis for UK?

1
Transiting Pluto is going to conjunct the United Kingdom chart (1801) IC and Sun during 2012-2014.

This seems like nothing less than a pending national crisis. What do people think this might signify?

Here are a few suggestions:

1 The death of Queen Elithabeth II. Although the monarchy only have a ceremonial role in our society Queen Elithabeth commands tremendous public respect both at home and abroad. She is our longest serving Monarch after Queen Victoria. Her death would be an acute blow to the UK national psyche and sense of identity. This all seems to reflect the symbolism of the Sun and IC.

2 The breakup of the United Kingdom. Scotland gained its own devolved parliament in 1999 . The separatist Scottish National Party formed their first administration last year and continue to carry high public support. Might the nationalists be able to achieve their political objective of a vote on independence from the UK? I note that when Pluto crossed the UK MC in 1922 the Irish free State was formed. Again issues of identity and uprooting of old traditions come to mind with the break up of the UK.

3 An energy crisis. There has been opposition to new Nuclear power stations being built. At the same time the renewable energy sources such as wind power have not yet reached sufficient capacity to meet the energy shortfall. If these trends were combined with more global problems of energy supply it could initiate an energy crisis.

2
It's not just the UK. I've picked up the same themes in the US chart, the dollar chart, the Euro Chart, China and the renminbi etc.

Though the exact timing does vary from chart to chart, it seems to me that what we will see is continued economic problems globally over more than a decade, probably a knock on from the financial events that have already been occurring in the last year.

That is not to say that there won't be a break up of the union, it has practically happened already and economic woes will just push it further on.

Don't know about the Queen. Her mother lived a long time, so she could have a lot of years to go! Could be a government crisis instead.

On the energy issue, with all the talk of another batch of nuclear power
stations, maybe pluto on the IC is radioactivity.....leaking out the ground.... No - that's a bit too depressing even for me.

3
The problem quite simply is this one:
Dozens, if not hundreds of states, institutions and laws started on a January 1st (Germany in 1871 too - that chart is still working, by the way). In other words the transit of Pluto over the degrees 8-11 will have worldwide consequences - and one has to take into account the fact that at the same time Pluto will be square Uranus.

4
Hi Lunlumo,

I realise this is a bit of a tangent but your comments on German charts really interested me.

Is the 1871 Imperial or unification chart still the one that most German astrologers prefer?

How useful do you find the other German charts-Weimar Republic (1919), Federal Republic (1949). Reunification chart (1990)?

Mark

5
Hello Amelia,

I am going to investigate the Scottish option further by checking the Scottish Parliament chart and the 1707 chart which has particular significance in English-Scottish affairs. Will also check the Scottish chart.

I was wondering if you would be kind enough to let me know where I might get the data for the financial charts you mention ie Euro, Dollar and Renminbi? Also what US chart are you using?

Mark

6
Since I am welsh I had better check the welsh option. That was a long time ago........

I use the midnight 1 Jan 1999 chart for the Euro
When it became legal currency in the Eurozone countries- even though there was no physical currency for a couple of years ( indeed the progression for the chart even shows this!)
This works like a dream- best chart I've ever come across!

I use midnight 1st December 1948 - the formation of Peoples bank of china which from then issued its own notes - for renminbi
www.gov.cn/english/2005-08/16/content_23765.htm

For dollar I use the coinage act 2 april 1792 with my own rectification for time. See wikipedia and connections thereto.

For US chart I use Sibley. Only becasue it was the one that spoke to me. I am much happier with my currency charts as can tell when they work as it makes me better off. No such test for US chart - as yet I have not attempted to find buyers/sellers for the whole of the USA.....!

Note that when I mentioned that they all show things in the next few years, I am including progressions and transits to progressions as well. A lot of charts seem to have a progressed planet ( which one it is varies from chart to chart), that travels for a decade at the same degrees as transiting pluto. A coincidence? Is there such a thing?

Hope that clarifies things

Charts for Germany

7
MarkC wrote:Hi Lunlumo,


Is the 1871 Imperial or unification chart still the one that most German astrologers prefer?

How useful do you find the other German charts-Weimar Republic (1919), Federal Republic (1949). Reunification chart (1990)?

Mark

Hi Mark,

A lot of discussion has been going on in Germany as to the "right" chart. I'd say the matter has more or less been settled:

The chart of the Federal Republic is this one:
24th May, 0.00 Bonn (or preferably Berlin now) - Caution - German Summer Time - i.e. May 23rd, 22:00 GMT.
One at times comes across the chart refering to the proclamation of the constitution: May 23rd, 13:00 GMT.
But as Campion et al. rightly say: The new state came into being not until 24th - this is a fact which can be found in the constitution itself (one of the last parapraphs of the "Grundgesetz" = German constitution)
A careful study of German post-war history will reveal that the 24th May chart is the right one. More and more astrologers have (partly reluctantly) accepted this fact.

As to the 1871 chart:
The time is Local Midnight Berlin, January 1st 1871.
One often comes across the "18th January chart" (Proclamation of Emperor Wilhelm I in Versailles). This chart was the chart of the German monarchy - but consequently "expired" on November 9th 1918, when the Kaiser (Wilhelm II) had to resign.
The "proof of the pudding" (may I say so?) is certainly the German Unification. It can be found both in the chart of January 1st, 1871 and in the one of May 24th, 1949.

What is interesting and what not many people know: the "Reich" that was founded in 1871 was not abolished after World War II - actually the Allies confirmed its existence at the start of the Potsdam Conference in summer 1945.
The highest German court, the "Bundesverfassungsgericht", twice (in 1973 and 1975) has explicitly stated that the Reich has never ceased to exist. This may be practically unimportant, but it should be taken as a hint concerning the validity of the correpsonding chart.

The chart of the Weimar Republic: November 9th, 1918, 14:00 Berlin (13:00 GMT)
This most certainly found its end on January 30th, 1933 (possibly 23rd March, 1933 - total power for the Nazis on that day).

Reunification chart:
I'd say that the chart of German Reunification is important with a view to the process of the unification itself - a process that is actually still going on. But on October 3rd 1990 the five newly founded "L?nder" became a part of Germany - i.e. they joined the Federal Republic. In other words: a new state did NOT come into being then.

It is interesting that the 1949 chart (24th May) when relocated to Berlin has a Capricorn-AC - on the tenth degree - i.e. there where you find the sun in the 1871 chart.
In other words: the tranist of Pluto will have an impact that can hardly be over-estimated.

Ll
Last edited by Lunlumo on Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

8
Hi Amelia,

Thanks for all that very helpful information. I hadn't given much thought to charts for currencies before. You have opened up a whole new area of mundane astrology for me. Thanks!

You have been very generous in sharing information already so I don't like to seem a pest. Still at the risk of pushing my luck I do have quite a lot of additional questions.

1 On the dollar chart do you still locate that in its original Philadelphia location or relocate it?

2 I would be interested in your rectification data on the dollar but fully appreciate you might want to keep that confidential if you have toiled away rectifying it.

3 I haven't tracked down data for the Federal Reserve yet although I note in began in 1913. Is that a relevant chart too in your experience?.

4 On the Euro are you locating that in Frankfurt with the European Central Bank? What about the ECB itself? I see that began on 01/06/98.

5 Finally, what chart do you use for the Sterling Pound? I have a date for the formation of the Bank of England in 1694 on July 27th. Is that the date you work with?

Thanks

Mark

9
Hello Lunlumo,

Fascinating stuff thanks for all your input.

I appreciate your clarification of the position on reunification. I wasn't aware the former GDR 'Landar' or states were just treated as new additions to the existing FDR. On the basis of what you have said the original chart for 1949 is the first chart of choice. Shouldn't it remain located for Bonn though even if the capital has been relocated later? Still , that mention of a Capricorn ASC at around 10 degrees intrigues me so I better check it out for both locations!

As Amelia pointed out there seems to be a lot happening on that Capricorn/Cancer axis over the next few years in loads of charts. Clearly my UK concern was a bit parochial.

An interesting point about the second 'Reich' and the 1871 chart. Something that would have made the old Kaiser happy! From what you said about re-unification its sounds like this chart is still worth checking too. We have a similar debate here in the UK around whether the 1801 chart or the later 1922 or 1927 charts are most valid. I still think the 1801 chart responds extremely well to transits etc despite the theoretical arguments why it shouldn't work any more due to subsequent legal and constitutional changes. Clearly noone told the 1801 chart!

I had wondered what is the key date for the creation of the Third Reich? I had looked at Hitler being sworn in as German Chancellor on 30/01/1933 ( around noon?). Still he was still part of a cabinet then composed of mostly non-Nazis.

Or what about the Reichstag Fire decree of 27/02/1933?

Nevertheless, I understand the Enabling Act on 23/03/1933 was the final seizure of full control by the Nazis. Do you have a time for this chart? Is it this one or the 30/01/33 chart that most German astrologers use for Nazi Germany?

Thanks

Mark

10
Hi Mark,
so far I've not been able to find out the accurate time for the date of March 23rd, 1933.
However, this should not be too difficult in the end. I think I'll have another try.
But nearly everybody refers to the chart of January 30th, 1933.
I do not think that the Reichstag decree ("Gesetz zum Schutz von Volk und Staat" - February 24th) would give really satisfying results, although that law doubtless meant a decisive step to total power.

As to relocation (Bonn or Berlin?) - Actually, like most astrologers I do not favour relocations, in any case I feel uneasy when doing so.
We'll know in a few years' time when Pluto will be exerting its influence: around 6 degrees for Bonn, around ten for Berlin.
Bonn has nearly disappeared from the political agenda - on the other hand: we do not relocate the US chart from Philadelphia to Washington DC, do we? Or should we?

Thanks for responding

11
P.S.
.. you may have notived that by mistake I typed the wrong date for the Weimar Republic.
The correct one: November 9th, 1918, Berlin, 14:00 (13 GMT).
On that day, after the Kaiser had just resigend, the republic was proclaimed.
However, there is a second date that might be equally important:
August 11, 1919 On that day the Weimar Constitution took effect. According to paragraph 181 "on the day of its proclamation". I think one may therefore take 0:00 CET of that day. The chart is worth looking at:
AC conj. Pluto, SA conj. IC, UR conj. MC - each of these is a most accurate conjunction. Little wonder that republic went to pieces just a few years later.

Concerning the March 23rd 1933 chart:
According to the transcriptions of the Reichstag sessions the law ("Erm?chtigungsgesetz") must have been accepted by the majority of the Parliament by around 19:30 - 19:40 CET, maybe a little later..
The session ended some minutes later at 19:52.
This gives a chart with an AC around 17 degrees Libra, Pluto conj. MC.

Ll

12
Mark
1. I set it for New York. But obviously since it is rectified anyway it is academic which i use.

2. I am less worried about the time I spent on the rectification and more about entering in to endless debates about the pros and cons of my rectification choice. I will send you a private message with the time I use, but of course "caveat emptor."

3. Fed chart is useful for double checking dollar and for general economic stuff with the us Chart.
Chart is 23 Dec 1913. 18.02 EST for DC. time the president signed the mandate to create it. Can be found on web somewhere.

4. Yes I use Frankfurt and CET (2 libra rising). I haven't tried ECB yet. Would be useful for interest rate changes I imagine.

5. sterling. Aaaaagh. I use to cobble something togther from UK 1801 chart using 3/4 planets ( saturn mercury neptune and jupiter).
I moved to using BOE chart last year. Was helpful for predicting banking crisis in summer but i've yet to isolate sterling from it properly. UK saturn is still working and I think will do so as long as sterling is tied to house prices.
Also don't forget for BOE, July 27 1694 is old calendar - so 6 Aug under new calendar.