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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hillary D. Rodham Clinton: candidate U.S. presidency 2009.
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Tom
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hasn't Libra always been known as the least human side of the zodiac, and therefore most prone to cruelty.

no animal or human symbolism.


Libra is a human sign despite being a machine. It is a man made machine. What gets lost in the gooey drivel of non-stop relationship astrology is that Libra is a masculine, cardinal, air sign. Goo is for water signs. But Libra is ruled by Venus. It is her masculine or assertive expression. Libra loves relationship as long as Libra is in charge.

Quote:
[Libra] is a sign aerial, hot and moist, Sanguine, Masculine, Movable, Equinotical, Cardinal, Human, Diurnal, of the aerial triplicity, and Western, the chief house of Venus. - CA page 96



Scorpio is a feminine, fixed, water sign ruled by Mars. Whereas Mars in Aries is more likely to initiate, Mars in Scorpio is more likely to retaliate somewhat subtly. To me Hitler initiated more than retaliated, but one could look at his efforts as a response to German humiliation in WWI. I'll leave that to the historians.

Quote:
[Scorpio] is a cold, watery, nocturnal, phlegmatic, feminine Sign, of the watery triplicity, fixed and north, the house and joy of Mars, feminine; usually it does represent subtle and deceitful men. - CA p 97


Hope that helps.

Tom
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robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tom

I can't see why a traditional persepective would contradict a modern one, and i'm, not referring to your 'gooey drivel of relationship astrology', (is this New Age astrology?)

A modern would say Libra has a mental, masculine and Venusian capacity for empathy whereas a Scorpio would have a emotional, feminine and Martian. and now factor in Pluto, one.

So in terms of genocide although in general terms a Scorpio may well be the one to initiate something,a Libra may find it more palatable in reality. I don't think Hitler involved himself directly in the 'cruelty' which again suggests a Libran disposition.
(ps - no offence to any individual Librans looking in!)

Hitler's chart suggests he was reacting to his childhood, which as you know was less than ideal. Unfortunately his response to this was received positively by the German people who were reacting against their treatment after the 1st World War.

In any event if you progressed the ascendent you run the risk of putting Saturn in the 9th house which would give modern astrologers a few difficulties.

On reflection I don't think I would have raised my eyebrows if his asc was Lib or Sco, but the clincher is saturn in the 10th?
________
FERRUCCIO LAMBORGHINI HISTORY


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Tom
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robin,

I do not want to get into a delineation of Hitler and his motivations. But to me, the key to his nativity is the battered condition of his ASC ruler. It is in domicile, but retrograde, conjunct Mars in detriment, and square Saturn in Leo. But modern astrologers place more importance on the ASC itself (the sign) than the ruler and so cannot abide by Libra. Then there is the "there is no such thing as a bad boy" approach to astrology aka, "there is no such thing as a malefic."

I won't even pretend to understand astrologically or psychologically how a rational human being can contemplate, much less execute genocide.

"Gooey drivel of relationship astrology" refers more to the never ending theme of "Does he love me?" or "Is this the one?" or 'When will I meet the one?" All of which can be answered without reference to astrology with "Ask him," "Figure it out" and "Never, if you don't get out of the house." Anyone who thinks this is cynical or mean check out the next most frequently asked questions: "Is he cheating?" and "Will he leave his wife for me?" Humbug. Take control of your life. Just because politicians say you're a victim doesn't make it true.

Everybody's childhood is less than ideal. Modern thought including modern astrologers would have us believe we would all have been better off if we had been raised by a pack of wolves rather than our parents. I agree childhood shapes our understanding, but we still make choices.

Hate works. And in politics timing is everything. But if you want to see something interesting, find the chart of Charlie Chaplin. He was born within a few days of Hitler and the charts are remarkably similar, but their lives turned out remarkably different.

And yes, Saturn in the 10th is problematic, but again by itself it is not the astrological personification of evil. My wife has Saturn in Cancer in the 10th and shows no tendencies towards sadistic murder, genocidal mania, or even simple misanthropy. She's a Virgo and too busy making me be neat to do all of that.

Tom
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Does he love me?" or "Is this the one?" or 'When will I meet the one?" All of which can be answered without reference to astrology with "Ask him," "Figure it out" and "Never, if you don't get out of the house." Anyone who thinks this is cynical or mean check out the next most frequently asked questions: "Is he cheating?" and "Will he leave his wife for me?" Humbug. Take control of your life. Just because politicians say you're a victim doesn't make it true.


Is because of that sort of question that sometimes I fell horary astrology about love should be outlawed Razz

And the worst kind... the gossip girl kinda of horary "other day I saw this ex in one party, and I want to know what he felt when he saw me"
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My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..

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robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi tom

Well I don't agree with you about chaplin and hitler having similar charts at all, 4 days apart, and we can spend all day defining what we mean by 'modern'.

However the scorpio asc could be relevant to this thread as their is anecdotal evidence that clinton didn't like the idea of people knowing she had a scorpio ascendent and 'changed' her birth time to the evening. Which if true seems odd as who takes astrology seriously these days?

robin
________
Mercedes-benz om617 engine history


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Tom
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robin,

Sometimes I'm as clear as mud and this is one of the times. What I should have said instead of the hastily written "strikingly similar" is that the aspects between the outer and inner planets were pretty much the same as they would be for anyone born within a few days of each other. Only the orbs would be different. The Moon of course would be way different. I was letting my modern roots show and did not intend to imply they were time twins or even close. Sorry about that.

My real point is that there is no way, that I know of, to look at Hitler's chart and conclude "genocidal maniac" or Chaplin's chart and conclude "Master of an art form that has yet to be invented." Clearly Hitler's chart is difficult.

I did this from the memory of an event I attended over 20 years ago. Two anonymous charts were put up in front of a group and the audience was asked which man they would prefer to date their daughters? The charts were Hitler's and Chaplin's and most picked Hitler because the other chart showed difficulty with women. Chaplin had some difficulty in that area but murder wasn't part of it.

As for Hillary, I don't know that she has any interest in astrology and I would wager a small amount she simply misspoke one of the times she gave out the 8 o'clock birth time. I did that once myself. Before I learned any astrology I met an enthusiastic astrologer who wanted to demonstrate the art to an interested party (me). She asked me my birth time and I gave it to her as AM instead of the correct PM. It was just a slip and I'm guessing Hillary did the same thing. My own opinion is that it is her astrology supporters who don't like the Scorpio rising chart. Poor Scorpio. No friends at all.

Tom
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robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom

Well we are into the realms as to what a 'blind' chart can reveal as regards Hitler and Chaplin. Hitler wanted to be admired (LIB-Rising) and Chaplin seen (Moon 1st). I'm not sure this is the forum to talk about the clinical descriptions of psychopathology as I would have to bring in the Outer Planets relationship(s) to the Moon. (Hitler has an almost exact moon-chiron opposition). Also it would be diverting the thread a bit, unless Clinton has some of these dispositions pronounced on her chart.

I can't see much here, although the theory is trine's are more, or as, likely as harder aspects to make you one of the 5% of people with psychopathic tendencies. For the AM chart she has Moon trine Uranus.
But I don't see Genocide as her primary agenda.
________
How to make a stew


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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you’ll be laughing of course...
My judgement base on astrology and the mystical signs feeling/believes.
I believe that Hillary was born at 8am, with Scorpio rising, Mercury at AC, Jupiter
in 1st in Sagittarius. Can’t be election without struggle with Saturn-Mercury square, of course.
This is my photograph, taken more than 1 year ago. Suddenly came to my attention.
The red color indicates Mars, perhaps the Hillary’s AS Scorpio ruler, and the tough choice suggested on magazine cover shows the Mercury-Saturn square... And, the powerful blaze suggests the victory (and Jupiter in 1st, of course)! Very Happy Thumbs up

And, finally, my wife says :”We need her and she’ll be fo sure”.

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Slayer of Cliffracers



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Reagan just had to be a Scorpio, and so he rectified his birth data and sure enough, he was!"


That is an inaccurate statement since Ronald Raegan was an Aquarius.
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
"Reagan just had to be a Scorpio, and so he rectified his birth data and sure enough, he was!"



That is an inaccurate statement since Ronald Raegan was an Aquarius.


It's not inaccurate. It's sarcastic.
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Slayer of Cliffracers



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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

It's not inaccurate. It's sarcastic.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Understood. It's reffering to dishonest Astrologers. [/quote]
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SGFoxe



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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"But if you want to see something interesting, find the chart of Charlie Chaplin. He was born within a few days of Hitler and the charts are remarkably similar, but their lives turned out remarkably different."

and after you do that, check out The Great Dictator which was chaplin's explicit take on the similarity of his & der Fuhrer's horoscope.
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Slayer of Cliffracers



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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it just goes to show we can't really blame our Horoscopes for us or anyone else being Evil bastards.

However there are similarities between Charlie Chaplin and Hitler in that both had a lot of problems with establishing stable relationships with women, both were public figures and both managed to be quite controversial. If you think that Hitler spend a lot of time rehearsing his speeches and had a great taste for theatrics actually.

However the Houses are probably a lot different and whatnot.
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