Hi folks,

While I'm on a roll I wanted to touch on a very important topic of ASSIGNING House cusps 1st, 7th ect...and positions of the chart to the various teams.

Traditionally the Astrologers here in the U.S. that I have personally known have always used Llewellyn's A-Z Horoscope Maker...(back part) for 1st-6th House Home Team, 7th-12th Visitor team, as most of you are allready familiar with. I know it's probably REAL old fashion.

Being an open minded person I have learned MUCH from Horary Sports Astrology web site, as I have mentioned before, and there is much discussion AND Examples given therein for teams winning because of Assigning the positions on the Chart with TEAMS COLORS as you all well know, too.

Here in the U.S. there was some talk on the web about using colors for HorseRacing and I have heard over the years MUCH GOOD that came out of it. But hardly NO talk of using Teams colors for Chart Assignment. Hey if it works, then THATS GREAT!

So, the question I have is just WHEN it is justified in using (Uniform) Color Assignments for Teams and their Chart positions, and WHEN We should use the (Standard) 1st Home, 7th Visitors? .............OR WHATEVER?

Your coomments would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time AND HELP,
Desertman
USA

I feel that this forum is like a work team, or a research team, D. There are no absolutes - but we are working on it. Stick with us and let's share experiences.

PS. We are so cooool!

Desertman:

Which desert? I was just out to the Salton Sea in CA over the holidays. That's some serious desert!

I didn't know the 1-6 for the home team came from the A-Z. I have the new edition: what page is it on? The only person I know of who used that scheme was the late Sophia Mason. To see her system, get her book, "The Art of Forecasting Using Diurnal Charts", the 1997 edition. AFA has it for $15 or thereabouts. I will be lookiing at her system in the next few days (I just got the book when I was out in CA for the holidays. Just got home last night. Suffering from jet-lag!).

In his 1950's booklet "Picking Winners" Donald Bradley (aka Garth Allen) assigned the 10th to the Home team and the 4th to the 7th, as does Frawley and everyone else I know of.

The safest method is to assign the first to the favorite and the 7th to the underdog. That's not perfect: the cosmos doesn't know anything about favorites or dogs, but it knows much less about home teams and road teams. As Frawley points out, the best method is to use your own knowledge of the teams to make the assignment. The first should go to whichever team has the most Aries-like frame of mind. That is often the home team and usually the favorite, but not always. A completely reliable method would probably require the use of the team charts for the participants.

Regards,

Bob

Hello, Bulletbob,

I live around Phoenix, but go to Vegas from time to time.

You knocked me out of my chair mentioning Sophia Mason! I was just looking over her book "The Art of Forecasting...." JUST this morning. She was very well respected by the AFA in Arizona as one of the BEST Astrologers there ever was. She was a College teacher of Astrology in Cleveland, and was an avid Sports forecaster using Astrology. I emailed her a few times about 7-8 years ago and she gave me a few tips.

Glad you know of her too, NOW we can get to work!

Since the planets don't move much (except for Sun, moon, mercury) each day she used Vertex, POF, and of corse the Moon very much.

One BIG thing that she used was the Aspects (Hard and Soft) from planets to Angular House cusps 1,4,7,10. This she explains in the back of the book. She also told me she uses Event Charts mostly, and not Diurnal Natal progressed charts.

Too bad you have a newer version of Llewllyn's A-Z. The sports charts are not in the newer version. JUST the older ones. I don't know why they did something stupid like that. Look on ebay!

Joan McEvers in one of her series of book called "The Only Way To Learn Astrology" mentions Sports Astrology in the back with team examples, too, like Sophia did. I don't know what I did with my book.

There is SO little written about Sports Astrology in the U.S. at least, because of the difficulty of the charts.

I did the chart of last nights game between Boston and Seattle, and I thought the chart was in favor of Seattle. WELL, I took Seattle and -9.5 points. I won, Boston just won by 8. A win is a WIN, Right!

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard?date=20071227

Got to go, More on the way.

D
USA

Hello Bulletbob again,

I just had to share this with you before I go for the day.

Looking at the Cleveland vs. Dallas game last night on the 27th, I was charting the game beforehand using some of Sophia's techniques, and didn't get much in the way of a bias toward either team. Dallas was a -7 point favorite, Playning at home. Strong for Dallas on a roll, anyway!

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard?date=20071227

The ONLY thing that jumped out was the Moon SQ. Venus. According to Sophia (and the chart) Moon's ruler CANCER is on Asc. and Venus ruler Libra ruler of 4th House cusps and that makes for Both planetary rulers AND signs being in HARD (square) aspects with each other. Bad if you count Dallas Mavs as the home team in the bottom half (1-7 houses) Dallas also Lost!

Well, this might seem like simplistic Astrology to most people, as this group is far ahead of me, and uses some Great techniques, but it worked for Sophia and others like her.

The game was in Dallas (next to Downtown) at 7 Pm Central Time Thur. Dec, 27, 07.

Let me know what you think.

I'm glad I bet on Seattle and won, instead. Well, maybe a little luck, too.

Stay in touch,
D
USA

How you people can take the heat in Phoenix is beyond me. Las Vegas is cool by comparison!

I picked up a copy of Mason's book while in LA and have read the sections on sports carefully. And I have just received, from Mason's daughter, copies of what appear to be Mason's work sheets for Football, baskets and bases.

Some of the material seems to be for her diurnal method, but mostly she seems to have been using the game charts. Do I understand you correctly in that Mason told you that she had essentially abandoned her diural approach in favor of the game charts?

I have to warn you of two serious prroblems I see with her approach. The first is her use of the 4th house as belonging to the 1st house. No one I know of does that. The 4th is the 10th of the 7th, and ditto for the 10th.
The second is with the times she uses, at least for basketball games. She uses the nominal time, e.g. 7:30. This is a serious error, as the real time seems to be more like 7:41, 8:11, etc. I timed alot of games in about 1989, and found the starting times were always between 9-13 minutes after the half hour. I'm timing some now, to see if things have changed. So far they are about the same. This is a serious error: about 3 degrees!
Mason says to keep the orbs down to 2 degrees max, so you can see that errors of 3 degrees will have a major effect on her system.

Mason's chart is in the front of the book. She had the Sun on the 5th, in aspect to JU and UR. Could be she did so well because of luck.

I was just going to analyze some of the examples I have with correct times when I got diverted to writing this, so I will have more to say later. Any info you can pass on from her would be appreciate.d The material I have dates from 1998. Would liike to know if she changed her methods after that.

Bob

Hello Bullettbobb,

Sorry for the late reply on this email.

Please send me sophia Masons Daughters email address, and or phone, too. I'd Love to have those notes of her, too! Can you make copies and send them to me as an attachment?

She DID say that she didn't use diurnal charts much any more and only used Event charts. But she could have gone back and forth, too about it. who knows.

In one email, she worked up one days racing at the Cleveland track for me back in about 2001, and she used horses names and their correlation to the Planetary hours, AND Numerology to forecast the winners for the races of the day (before the races began) In conclusion, she WAS very good at picking winners, but not great. I'd say better, though than average than just straight handicapping the ponies, though. She did have some good tips using those two methods.

Yes, she uses bottom half, home team, and the top half visitors, which I know is NOT what other people use. I assumed she was very old fashion in her approach, too, but she kept telling me she used what worked for HER, and threw out the rest. I pefer to use the other method, too , like Llewellyn, Bradley, and all the rest here use, like to judge charts, too.

In short, the emails I had with her also, suggested that she changed the Orb, and methods sometimes. Her book says 2 degree orb, and her emails said no more than One degree, so, it's anybodys guess.

Again, she mentioned that the planetery aspects to Angular house cusps (1, 4, 7, 10) was important to her. Just like she said in the last part of her blue book on sports astrology.

She was very big on what seemed to me to be her invention of Modified T-Squares (hard aspects) and Modified Trines (with sextiles) for helpfull influnces, as mentioned in her book, too. She said that they were JUST as powerful as Regular T-Squares, and she judged the chart on these, too. Her daughter probably knows much about this particular thing.

Yes, Some WAS probably luck, and sometimes she probably just cherry picked games to put in her book, I guess.

This does not take away from her great knowledge of Astrology. She was always looking for MOVEMENT in the chart since most planets are slow, and the games are fast.

I can't hardly find her daughter anywhere on the web.

Bye,
D

I didn't find the material I got from Mason's daughter to be very helpful.
It appears to be Mason's actual notes on some charts she was looking at, from 1998.

Over Xmas I gt a copy of her book on diurnals, and found the material in it to be vastly more helpful than the 'stuff' I got from her daughter. I spent some time looking at her game chart approach, but gave up on it.
It's very messy, with a ton of factors listed, which would make it almost impossible to verify which one's were actually valid. Another problem is that she used the scheduled starting time for basketball games, which is about 11 minutes off from the actual time. For a system based on angular aspects an error that large will often be fatal. Football games are quite punctual (except, e.g., Monday night, and even those are pretty good when you apply the right correction). I have no times for baseball, so I don't know about that. Finally, she could say that she used what worked for her, with reference to the 4th/10th issue, but either the 4th goes to home team or it doesn't. I think the reason it seemed to work for her is that her entire method was so inaccurate that she couldn't tell the difference!

She may have a few ideas that could be incorporated into Frawley's method, but as a stand-alone technique I'd keep away from it.

I'll see if there are a few examples that illustrate what she was doing, and I'll scan them for you.

I am, as we type, looking into her diurnals method, and it appears to be valid and useful. I am comparing it to game charts for some of the NFL playoff games, and it gives clear indications for some games where the game chart approach is very muddy. I will post something on it directly.

Regards,

Bob

There are situations:
1) Favorite and Host at the same time. ASC
2) Strong Favorite and Visitor. ASC
3) Team initiates match or contest (or revanche or return match or revenge). ASC ("On WAR" G.Bonatti)

In All the rest situations (or for verification) one may use color method.

I don't know about your third point, because in American sports teams don't initiate return matches. These things are scheduled months in advance by the various leagues. That's not to say that revenge cannot be a factor, but if a team is to have that opportunity it will come, by chance, as a result of scheduling done months before. And not all teams are capable of revenge: depends on the ability of the team.

One thing about this color business I don't understand is, why not use the teams' name instead? Teams can change the color of their uniform any time they want, and most have different colors for home and away games. But their name is almost never changed. Even if they move across the country the important part of their name usually stays the same (the Brooklyn Dodgers became the Los Angeles Dodgers, for example). I believe many horse racing systems use the name of the horse or jockey to pick winners. Why not in sports?

Bob

Bulletbobb wrote: because in American sports teams don't initiate return matches.

why not use the teams' name instead? Teams can change the color of their uniform any time they want, and most have different colors for home and away games.

About 3rd point, when i wrote that I think about a boxing bouts and probable rematch Hutton vs Mayflower. ? day or two ago Hutton threw down a challenge to Mayflower.

Usually there are home and away team colors of sport kit and they usually don't change all season. (seldom there is third kit). This is a freely available in WWW. Why don't use it?

Name? How? By Numerology?
One time I used name of NBA team "Phoenix Suns" :-)

More complex scheme,

1) strong favorite, home - ASC
underdog don't even hope and everybody stare at favorite
2) strong favorite, guest - ASC
favorite is conqueror and throw down a challenge to take victory on field belongs to others, everybody stare at favorite
3) mild favorite, home (that is... favorite just because of home) - DSC
4) mild favorite, guest - ASC
see pt.2

IMHO :-)