rectified horoscopes of Adolf Hitler and John F. Kennedy. 1 by Andries H. Cats I read a book about primary directions with examples the horoscopes of Hitler and J. F. Kennedy. I myself had already rectified the horoscope of Adolf Hitler ( see my website: www. andriescats.nl. I used a Dutch astrolog progressive system the Gieles minus 1 (year) system. Gieles is the name of the inventor which was one of Hollands reknown astrologers. I use also the transits. As I read the book mentioned, the horoscope of Hitler was rectified with primary direction saturn conjunct MC on 21 december 1907: the death of Hitlers mother. With Gieles minus 1 system I earlier ( 5 december 2005) rectified Hitlers horoscope with aspect progressive MC conjunct radix saturn on 21 december 1907: the death of Hitlers mother. When I read the mentioned book of primary directions I became intriqued by the Kennedy horoscope. When I tested the primary directions rectified horoscopes of Hitler and of Kennedy with the Gieles minus 1 system I became no rectifying results. So I tried to rectify John F. Kennedys horoscope, what was very difficult, but after two days I found the solution. One progressive aspect: on 8 november 1960 the day he won the elections he had progressive cusp descendant conjunct radix jupiter. The Kennedy horoscope of the primary directions has for this item primary direction jupiter conjunct descendant. You can see my rectified birthchart of Kennedy at the bottom of my website. As result of the rectified horoscopes I saw that Hitler and J. F. Kennedy have the same ascendant/descendant and the same cusp third/ nine house. Quote Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:46 pm
2 by Bobby Hi Andries, I am most interested in your rectification of Hitler's chart! Can you give any further details regarding the Gieles minus 1 (year) system? Can any of the run of the mill softwares (eg Solarfire etc) do these calculations? Have you managed to rectify anyone elses chart using this method and confirmed your rectification by making a correct prediction? Best Wishes Bobby Quote Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:37 am
3 by Papretis Hi Andries, are you talking about Rumen Kolev's booklets of primary directions? He writes: The most widely used birth time of Hitler among the British and American astrologers if today is 18h.30min. However the author of this book rejects thist ime as most probably a mystification of the Nazis or a mistake. Instead we will use the time given by the German astrologer Wilhelm Wulff. Wulff was a contemporary of Hitler and for many years was compelled to work under the direct orders of the Man in Chief of the SS - Heinrich Himler. It is reasonable that this time is the most reliable. (---) His data for Hitler is: 1889, 20 April, 17h 56 min. local time, Braunau. Kolev reconstructed this time as 18.03.53 Middle European Standard Time and rectified it with the primary directions as 18.03.27 Middle European Standard Time. Wulff's chart for Hitler can be found here on Skyscript: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wulff2.html Quote Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:39 am
4 by Tom I know I've said this elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating: primary directions were not used as super precise indicators of events by the authorities who used them extensively. Yes, I believe Andries is referring to Kolev's booklet since both Hitler and JFK are discussed in depth. Andries is also calling attention to his own website. Kolev himself gives a fairly wide latitude between the hit date of a direction and the occurrence of the event - in some cases he allows as much as six months either way! Yes, he does cite a nasty direction that has a hit date of Nov 22, 1963 in JFK's chart, but he also admits "rectifying" the chart from the usually accepted 3:00 pm to 2:59:31 PM a difference of 29 seconds. Using his program's rectification module, we can jiggle any chart and some up with a spectacular hit date, although we may not get good hit dates with anything else. This is not the case with his JFK rectification. Don't get me wrong, I love Kolev's books and I own his program. I'm not quibbling with his knowledge of primary directions (extensive), his skills as an astrologer (outstanding) or his ability with math (far superior to my own). I'm only wondering out loud as to the reputation for precision that are attached to primary directions. I've read in both Morin's work and Gadbury's the use of the phrase "under the influence of a direction." There are no references to hit dates. The idea seems to be that the directions are a broad indication of events that can occur within a fairly wide range of time (as Kolev himself states). To my way of thinking if the event is exactly on the hit date, it is more coincidence than astrological influence. I do admit Kolev's work with Hitler's chart is very impressive, as is his work with JFK's chart. It seems though, that those who used primary directions extensively used them in conjunction with returns and transits - not as stand alone predictive techniques. The life unfolds over time - often in a more or less orderly fashion. Except for spectacular accidents or major luck (good or bad), most lives unfold over time and the bigger events are the result of decisions and occurrences that came before. A bad marriage does not happen on the wedding day. Mentally healthy teenagers do not one day become drug addicts because of a bad Neptune square. A nasty primary direction didn't cause the teetotaler to drink too much and wreck his car. We write our own script as Eric Berne used to say. Very few things happen to us out of the blue. The directions, returns and transits can show us how the events may unfold or, better yet, how to use he "forces" so they unfold constructively. Tom Quote Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:03 pm
5 by Andries H. Cats I think I probably rectified also the horoscope of Lee Harvey Oswald. His birthtime = GMT 21h54m9s. His neptune is opposite his MC. His sun is square MC of John F. Kennedy. You can see the chart and some progressive aspects on my website: www.andriescats.nl. Quote Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:39 pm
6 by Andries H. Cats Rectified horoscope Lee Harvey Oswald. 29 okt. 1963: FBI agent James Hosty makes inquiries in the Paine's neighborhood regarding Lee. 1 nov. 1963: Hosty interviews Ruth and Marina at the Paine home. Also that day, Lee rents a new PO box and sends letters to the ACLU and the American Communist Party. 2 nov. 1963: Lee instructs Marina that if Hosty returns she should get his plate number. 5 nov. 1963: Hosty returns for another interview, and Marina obtains his plate number. 21 nov. 1963: Lee breaks routine by having breakfast at the Dobb's House restaurant. Later, he arrives at the Paine home without calling first. He retires early that evening. 22 nov. 1963, 12:30 PM: Lee Harvey Oswald(allegedly)assassinates President John F. Kennedy. 28-Okt-1963 016?,03'59 Scorpio Maan 135 Jup (progressive) 2-Nov-1963 005?,44'15 Sagittarius Mars 180 C-12 (transit) 2-Nov-1963 009?,45'44 Scorpio Zon 135 MC (transit) 2-Nov-1963 009?,13'39 Scorpio Zon 45 Nep (transit) 5-Nov-1963 017?,51'34 Virgo C--3 45 Plu (progressive) 21-Nov-1963 024?,45'44 Aquarius Mars 30 MC (progressive) 22-Nov-1963 002?,54'13 Leo Plu 45 C?3 (both progressive) Quote Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:54 am
7 by Andries H. Cats An other probably rectified horoscope is of Robert Francis Kennedy. GMT: 20h9m12,5s. Rectification 22 november 1963: assault on John F. Kennedy: progressive Sun 180 degrees radix pars. The co-ordinates of the birthplaces of the Kennedys and Oswald are not rectified. Quote Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:18 pm
8 by Andries H. Cats Rectified horoscope John F. Kennedy and the Cuba crisis. Progressive aspects: 27-Sep-1962 020?,44'40 Cancer Merc 90 Asc 27-Sep-1962 011?,02'04 Taurus Moon 90 OND Ven 29-Sep-1962 +19?,22'33 Moon // Nep 2-Okt-1962 002?,40'34 Gemini Jup 60 Nep 11-Okt-1962 011?,31'03 Taurus Moon 60 ZwZn 25-Okt-1962 001?,45'37 Aquarius C--3 135 Ven 26-Okt-1962 012?,04'41 Taurus Moon 135 C-12 Transits: 27-Sep-1962 004?,53'37 Aquarius Sat 45 C?3 27-Sep-1962 +18?,50'13 Drac // Plu 2-Okt-1962 024?,41'11 Cancer Mars 0 MC 3-Okt-1962 003?,16'28 Virgo Ura 60 Plu 5-Okt-1962 012?,04'41 Scorpio Nep 45 C-12 6-Okt-1962 027?,10'01 Cancer Mars 0 Sat 12-Okt-1962 000?,08'00 Leo Mars 180 Pars 12-Okt-1962 003?,16'28 Pisces Jup 120 Plu 13-Okt-1962 004?,53'37 Leo Drac 135 C?3 14-Okt-1962 020?,44'40 Libra. Sun 0 Asc 15-Okt-1962 001?,45'37 Leo Mars 45 Ven 16-Okt-1962 002?,14'26 Leo Mars 45 Moon 16-Okt-1962 +19?,22'33 Plu // Nep 17-Okt-1962 012?,29'20 Scorpio Nep 60 Drac 17-Okt-1962 002?,40'34 Leo Mars 0 Nep 17-Okt-1962 027?,04'41 Scorpio Ven 60 C-12 17-Okt-1962 006?,57'43 Libra. Merc 45 ZMnT 18-Okt-1962 003?,16'28 Leo Mars 30 Plu 18-Okt-1962 027?,10'01 Scorpio Ven 120 Sat 19-Okt-1962 008?,03'21 Libra. Merc 135 Jup 20-Okt-1962 027?,29'20 Scorpio Ven 45 Drac 20-Okt-1962 008?,43'07 Libra Merc 135 Ura 21-Okt-1962 004?,53'37 Leo Mars 135 C?3 22-Okt-1962 004?,53'37 Aquarius Sat 45 C?3 24-Okt-1962 013?,12'01 Libra. Merc 45 C-11 24-Okt-1962 000?,08'00 Scorpio Sun 90 Pars 25-Okt-1962 011?,31'03 Virgo Plu 60 ZwZn 25-Okt-1962 001?,45'37 Scorpio Sun 135 Ven 25-Okt-1962 -12?,06'17 Sun # C-11 25-Okt-1962 027?,29'20 Scorpio Ven 45 Drac 26-Okt-1962 002?,14'26 Scorpio Sun 45 Moon 26-Okt-1962 002?,40'34 Scorpio Sun 90 Nep 27-Okt-1962 003?,16'28 Scorpio Sun 120 Plu 27-Okt-1962 021?,57'43 Weegsch. Maan 60 ZMnT 27-Okt-1962 007?,51'06 Leeuw Mars 60 Zon 27-Okt-1962 016?,45'37 Weegsch. Merc 120 Ven 27-Okt-1962 017?,14'26 Weegsch. Merc 30 Maan 27-Okt-1962 027?,10'01 Scorpio Ven 120 Sat Quote Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:34 am
9 by Andries H. Cats I must correct the rectified horoscope of Lee Harvey Oswald. The above mentioned rectified horoscope of Oswald has GMT 27h54m09s. This should be GMT 27h54m07,5s. Progressive aspects: 20-Okt-1959 024?,52'19 Kreeft Asc 90 Zon: the Committee for State Security of the Council of Ministers of the USSR deems it inadvisible to grant Soviet citizenship to Lee Harvey Oswald. 20-Okt-1959 006?,18'53 Scorpio Nep 0 Ven (transit) 2-Nov-1963 028?,14'43 Weegsch. Drac 90 OND Asc 8-Nov-1963 017?,51'34 Maagd C--3 45 Plu 17-Nov-1963 024?,45'20 Waterman Mars 30 MC 24-Nov-1963 002?,54'13 Leeuw Plu 45 OND C--3 Quote Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:16 pm
10 by Andries H. Cats Rectified horoscope of Lyndon B. Johnson GMT: 10h56m02s. Progressive aspects: 3-Nov-1960 028?,45'24 Libra C--2 60 Black Moon 3-Nov-1960 002?,46'19 Aquarius C--5 * DABIH (SAT - VENUS ) 8-Nov-1960 +22?,46'01 Moon // C-11 19-Jan-1961 001?,47'37 Leo Moon 30 Drac 20-Jan-1961 013?,12'35 Capricornus Ura 0 Ura 6-Sep-1962 025?,41'24 Libra Sun 120 Plu 15-Sep-1962 002?,32'00 Libra Asc 45 Asc 27-Sep-1962 025?,44'46 Libra Sun 120 OND Plu 5-Okt-1962 +17?,59'44 Moon // Ven 1-Nov-1962 022?,57'36 Leo Moon 0 Pars 6-Nov-1962 001?,01'33 Sagittarius C--3 * YED PRIOR (SAT - VENUS ) 17-Nov-1962 013?,15'00 Scorpio Merc 60 OND Ura 7-Dec-1962 024?,07'40 Leo Moon 135 Sat 7-Dec-1962 +09?,38'51 Jup // OND C-12 25-Dec-1962 013?,12'35 Scorpio Merc 60 Ura 23-Jan-1963 025?,39'48 Leo Moon 45 C--3 24-Jan-1963 025?,41'24 Leo Moon 60 Plu 26-Jan-1963 025?,44'36 Leo Moon 60 OND Plu 3-Feb-1963 026?,00'31 Leo Moon * ALPHARD (SAT - VENUS ) 6-Feb-1963 026?,06'23 Libra Sun 60 OND Moon 7-Feb-1963 013?,04'36 Virgo Ven 120 MC 8-Feb-1963 005?,15'01 Aries Sat 150 OND C-12 12-Feb-1963 026?,17'14 Leo Moon * ADHAFERA (SAT - MERC ) 14-Feb-1963 026?,22'01 Leo Moon 45 Black Sun 20-Feb-1963 026?,34'26 Leo Moon 0 Jup 22-Feb-1963 026?,37'43 Leo Moon * AL JABHAH (SAT - MERC ) 23-Feb-1963 001?,17'46 Sagittarius C--3 * ISIDIS (MARS - SAT ) 28-Feb-1963 013?,08'27 Scorpio Merc 60 OND Ven 11-March-1963 001?,20'01 Sagittarius C--3 135 Nep 22-March-1963 013?,12'35 Virgo Ven 120 Ura 29-March-1963 -10?,08'16 Sun # Sun 7-Apr-1963 013?,15'32 Virgo Ven 120 OND Ura 12-Apr-1963 -11?,48'26 C--2 # Mars 12-Apr-1963 028?,12'35 Leo Moon 135 Ura 13-Apr-1963 +16?,08'03 Moon // Plu 13-Apr-1963 028?,15'34 Leo Moon 135 OND Ura 23-Apr-1963 028?,33'33 Leo Moon * REGULUS (MARS - JUP ) 23-Apr-1963 +16?,02'11 Moon // OND Plu 29-Apr-1963 028?,45'24 Leo Moon 0 Black Moon 29-Apr-1963 013?,04'36 Scorpio Merc 180 MC 2-May-1963 -01?,13'18 Asc # Sat 5-May-1963 028?,57'00 Leo Moon 60 OND Drac 20-May-1963 +15?,46'18 Moon // MC 6-Jun-1963 000?,00'00 Virgo Moon Nw 8-Jun-1963 +15?,35'11 Moon // Asc 12-Jul-1963 001?,10'00 Virgo Moon 60 OND C--2 13-Jul-1963 005?,13'14 Aries Sat 120 OND C-11 17-Jul-1963 001?,20'01 Virgo Moon 45 Nep 28-Jul-1963 026?,34'26 Libra Sun 60 Jup 28-Jul-1963 001?,40'42 Virgo Moon 90 OND C--3 31-Jul-1963 001?,47'37 Virgo Moon 60 Drac 8-Aug-1963 002?,01'50 Virgo Moon 0 Mars 10-Aug-1963 002?,07'00 Virgo Moon 45 OND Nep 13-Sep-1963 001?,47'37 Sagittarius C--3 150 Drac 15-Sep-1963 003?,16'36 Virgo Moon 45 C-12 19-Sep-1963 003?,24'01 Virgo Moon 30 OND Asc 25-Sep-1963 003?,36'07 Virgo Moon 60 OND MC 27-Sep-1963 +07?,04'13 Ven // C--2 30-Sep-1963 003?,44'47 Virgo Moon 0 Sun 17-Okt-1963 004?,19'45 Virgo Moon 45 Ven 1-Nov-1963 001?,54'54 Sagittarius C--3 * GRAFFIAS (MARS - SAT ) 13-Nov-1963 005?,11'49 Virgo Moon 150 OND Sat 16-Nov-1963 +13?,52'13 Moon // Pars 22-Nov-1963 003?,44'47 Cancer MC 60 Sun 24-Nov-1963 005?,33'21 Virgo Moon 30 OND C-11 25-Nov-1963 003?,33'27 Libra Asc * ZANIAH (MERC - VENUS ) 28-Nov-1963 001?,30'27 Scorpio C--2 135 C-11 10-Jan-1969 008?,23'58 Scorpio Moon 120 OND MC 10-Jan-1969 008?,24'01 Scorpio Moon 60 OND Jup 10-Jan-1969 008?,24'30 Scorpio Moon 0 OND Merc 10-Jan-1969 008?,24'01 Virgo Jup 60 OND MC 11-Jan-1969 008?,24'13 Scorpio Merc 120 OND MC 12-Jan-1969 008?,24'05 Scorpio Merc 60 OND Jup 14-Jan-1969 007?,57'36 Libra Asc 45 Pars 16-Jan-1969 002?,01'50 Scorpio Sun 60 Mars 28-Jan-1969 010?,39'48 Virgo C-12 30 C--3 31-Jan-1969 009?,07'40 Scorpio Moon 150 Sat Quote Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:02 pm
Primary Directions in Topocentric system 11 by Isaac Starkman Tom: My long experience (since 1985) with primary directions in Topocentric system had convinced me they are the super precise indicators of events. Did you learn Alexander Marr's books? Having extensively checked the other kinds of primary directions in Kolev's Placidus clearly showed me there is no other system that pinpoints events with appropriate symbolism and with very small orbs as Topocentic system: max. Orbs are 11' (or 65 days) for conjunction and opposition and 5.6' (or 35 days) for all the other aspects. The average orb is 2.5' Although primary directions can stand alone as a predictive technique (as Alexander Marr did in his book: Prediction II- Directions and the Art of Rectification, 1985- now out of print), it is recommended to verify and collaborate with the following systems: 1. Secondary Directions using the Solar Arc in Right Ascension for house-directions 2. Secondary directions derived from the Sidereal Solar Returns- PSSR (Cyril Fagan?s system) 3. Lunar Cycles: lunar return, kinetic lunar and Asc-lunar, both direct and converse, precession-corrected. 4. Transits to Angles and cusps, both direct and converse. In 1996 I compiled Polaris- a special rectification program. For a short description how it works see my posts in Tyl's forum. Although many events happen to us not out of the blue, for the rectification process it doesn't matter: A bad marriage, in most cases, will result in serious quarrel, a separation or official divorce, etc. Andries: For Lyndon Johnson you gave a list of some 70 progressive aspects. How can anyone be convinced that the rectified time you gave is indeed correct? You didn't give any corresponding event. My rectification is 10.26.16 UT Asc 11Leo14' Here are some major events in his life with primary directions in Topocentric system and secondaries aspects: P= Primary direction in Topocentric S= Secondary direction 1.Birth of brother 31 Jan 1914 P: Mer 120 MC 5' S: MC 120 Mer 2' S: Moon 0 NN 4' 2.Marriage 17 Nov 1934 P: Asc 0 Ven 3' P: PAF 0 Moon 6' P: Mer 0 PAF 7' 3. Appointment as state director 25 July 1935 P: Asc 0 Sun 2; P: MC 30 NN 0' P: Jup 60 III 5' S: Ven 60 MC S: Asc 60 NN 9' S: Moon 0 Mer 2' S: Moon 0 Jup 2' 4. Appendicitis 8 Apr 1937 P: Nep 0 Asc 4' P: Asc 0 VIII 5' 5. Death of father 23 Oct 1937 P: VIII 90 SN 4' P: Nep 45 MC 2' P: VIII 60 Sat 5' S: Sun 90 MC 2' S: Sun 90 SN 5' 6. Daughter born 19 Mar 1944 S: V 120 Moon 4' S: V 60 Sun 7' S: V 120 NN 9' S: Mars 120 V 4' 7. Elected leader of the Senate 2 Jan 1953 P: Asc 60 Sun 0' 8. Vice President 6 Nov 1960 P: Asc 60 Jup 4' P: MC 180 Mer 6' P: PAF 0 NN 8' S: III 120 Ven 8' S: Moon 0 Asc 10' 9. Death of sister 25 Dec 1961 P: Asc 0 Plu 6' P: IC 0 Moon 4' P: VIII 135 Moon 4' 10. a. Assassination of Kennedy b. Became President 22 Nov 1963 P: Nep 45 Sat 1' P: Plu 120 Mar 2' P: Jup 60 Moon 5' 11. Retirement 20 Jan 1969 P: Nep 90 XI 3' S: MC 0 NN 8' S: MC 120 NN9' 12. Death 22 Jan 1973 P: VIII 120 Sun 6' S: MC 60 Mars 0' S: Asc 90 SN 7' Quote Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:07 pm
12 by Andries H. Cats Progressive aspects. Lyndon B. Johnson was elected to the Senate on November 2, 1948: 1-Nov-1948 013?,12'35 Aquarius Moon 30 Ura 2-Nov-1948 011?,59'02 Libra. Sun 30 C?2 and was elected Vice President on November 8, 1960: 8-Nov-1960 +22?,46'01 Moon // C-11 and in service on 20-Jan-1961 013?,12'35 Steenbok Ura 0 Ura and president on 22-Nov-1963 003?,44'47 Cancer MC 60 Sun Last month of presidency: 10-Jan-1969 008?,23'58 Scorpio Moon 120 mutual MC 10-Jan-1969 008?,24'01 Scorpio Moon 60 mutual Jup 10-Jan-1969 008?,24'30 Scorpio Moon 0 mutual Merc 10-Jan-1969 008?,24'01 Virgo Jup 60 mutual MC 11-Jan-1969 008?,24'13 Scorpio Merc 120 mutual MC 12-Jan-1969 008?,24'05 Scorpio Merc 60 mutual Jup Last State of the Union address on 14-Jan-1969 007?,57'36 Libra Asc 45 Pars 6-Jan-1969 002?,01'50 Scorpio Zon 60 Mars 28-Jan-1969 010?,39'48 Virgo C-12 30 C--3 31-Jan-1969 009?,07'40 Scorpio Maan 150 Sat Quote Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:32 pm