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Event chart vs "who wins?" horary
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Nixander



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 17

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Event chart vs "who wins?" horary Reply with quote

I am new to this forum and as far as I understand most of you guys are focusing on the event charts. I would like to know if anyone here is also considering the good ol' "Will X win this game?" horary?

Because, at least to my mind and experience, that kind of horary question eliminates two problems at once - a) which team is ASC? and b) it does not matter anymore when a number of teams are playing at the same time and [almost the same] location.

Also, the event charts quite often are not radical (ASC late etc.). I would appreciate any insights.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got one on my coverage of the World Championships in Handball for Women, that will be played tomorrow. The question was asked when som 16 teams still were in the tournement. I reprint it here.

Quote:
"Will Norway win the World Championships in Handball for Women?"
I have a horary that is a week old now and that I have placed a bet on. The chart is cast for Dec. 9, 21.56 GMT 59N50 10E26

The asc is 9VI53. The asc of the national chart of Norway is 8VI48.
PoF is 11VI50 in the 1st, square his dispositor, Mercury, 132SG11 through signs of long ascension. I take this as affirmative an put a stake on the prediction with the odds 2,70:1.

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You also find another horary under UEFA EURO 2008 Finals, where France is my selection at odds 9:1
-------------------------

Good Luck!
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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 948
Location: Srbija

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my site:
http://www.geocities.com/astrosport88/engleski.html
you have several examples how to analyse chart upon horary question.
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http://fensi88.livejournal.com/
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Ficina
Member


Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 1807
Location: Kent, England

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nixander and welcome to the forum Smile

I can see a problem with "Will X win this game?". Usually in these kind of questions the querent supports or has a definite interest in one of the two teams, in which case a horary is OK. But when you have many games starting at the same time, how do you decide who is X?

Quote:
Also, the event charts quite often are not radical (ASC late etc.)

I don't think the considerations before judgement that are used in horary are relevant in an event chart.
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Nixander



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 17

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't actually think you have to be a huge fan of one of the two teams to ask the question(, even though there are a few teams I'm fond of).

If you are interested in, let's say, NBA basketball, when you are looking at the current odds you have an opinion of which team is going to win. If you are confident that your team is going to win, you ask the question e.g. "Will Golden State Warriors win tonight's game (vs Pistons)?". PS I am also a fan of Golden State. And you get your answer - Yes or No. In this case, it is a No.

The question is about the specific game, so it does not matter if you have 250 games starting at the same time.

PS The event chart of DET v GSW is a bit confusing, but it looks more like DET is going to lose. I do not have much experience, though, dealing with event charts, so maybe I am wrong.

The event chart is 42N19 and 83W02 (Detroit) GMT-5 12:30PM, in case someone wants to look at it. Detroit is a big favorite acc. to oddsmakers.
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say: use neither.

Doing horary this way, you have no personal involvement in it, as if, say Alex Ferguson asked the question if HIS team would win.
Plenty of people can ask the same question about thier team, but what happens if they all get the same natal?
Or even Wenger and Ferguson asking the same question just before facing each other.

Event natal is interesting and more likely to tell you about the EVENT in progress. Does the event natal show the winner?
Well, if you think about it a little more in depth, that would mean that teams such as Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea always get favourable fixture lists and the lower teams always get the bad fixtures.

I still think the event natal will show something about the event. But to find the winner from a horary or event natal is just plain silly.

Anyone else thought about it in that way? Just sounds pretty darn obvious.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When journalists ask me "What is going to happen in 2008?", the question is void because the question has no focus and the querent is either not related to the matter, or is of a serious mind or of the correct contemplation. However, I feel that the problem of no focus is obstacle no.1.

Coffee, you do make the point that if everyone is asking the same question at different times, how could one moment be more valid than another? This is a good point, but a good horary moment has the quality of being able to separate itself from the fluster of general questions. One of the conditions of horary astrology is that the chart may be cast for the moment the astrologer is presented with the question. In the case of the question "Do we win this evenings football match?" and the same question is asked every day, then the chart would not make sense. In my experience the moment of a horary may be observed when the problem or question is observed by coincidence or random by the astrologer. I feel that the moment of a horary is an 'infrequent' happening.

It is like giving short readings to 5 people in a row, where they all have the same basic questions - I do not apply the same horary chart to answer every case. However, I have experienced receiving one telephone call from one part of the country and then another telephone call just afterwards, and the same horary chart did perfectly describe in both instances.
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing more to say on this matter. You know my views, but feel free to keep trying.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing your opinion. Thumbs up The horary chart I had on the WC in handball did not answer the question as I expected. This I put down to the fact that the lord of the asc. and the Moon were combust in the 4th house (of buried treasure). The chart has no light and the matter was concealed.

The reason I participate in the forum is because it provides me with the opportunity to stretch my thoughts and techniques. It is an experience of learning, testing, research and discovery. The fact that other people participate with their ideas too is encouraging.
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew J. Bevan wrote:

The reason I participate in the forum is because it provides me with the opportunity to stretch my thoughts and techniques. It is an experience of learning, testing, research and discovery. The fact that other people participate with their ideas too is encouraging.


Yeah, same here. Good to learn.
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Nixander



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 17

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I still think the event natal will show something about the event. But to find the winner from a horary or event natal is just plain silly.


From that point of view, the event charts cannot be used to determine the winner. Because, if there are a hundred games played at the same time and location, there is no way ONE event chart can show us what is going to happen in a hundred DIFFERENT games -- and it does not matter which team is ASC or DSC.

Also, there is no way we can determine the winner of the game using the natal astrology (using the player's natal charts, transits, progressions etc. etc.). We can tell when the team is likely to have a bad day but we cannot be sure if they are going to lose.

We cannot use the horary as well -- because if there are two different questions asked (at the same time and place) about the same game, there's no way both answers can be correct.

Forget the teams. Imagine there is a match to be played - X vs Y. A guy named Joe asks an astrologer "Will I win the wager on X?", while another guy named Harry in the next room asks another astrologer "Will I win the wager on Y?". One of them - Joe or Harry - HAS to lose.

So, what options do we have?
a) The horary (along with the event charts) does not work
b) One of the blokes is NOT represented by the ASC (& the Lord Of the ASC), so apparently we will have to check the birthmarks on their bodies (acc. to Lillyís book) to find out who is the RIGHT guy, i.e., more likely to be represented by the ASC
c) The Universe knows that will be the case and both charts (for Joe and Harry) will come up contradictory or not radical etc. (Now thatís a big one)

Ideas, anyone?
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Forget the teams. Imagine there is a match to be played - X vs Y. A guy named Joe asks an astrologer "Will I win the wager on X?", while another guy named Harry in the next room asks another astrologer "Will I win the wager on Y?". One of them - Joe or Harry - HAS to lose.


Two guys at two different astrologers at the same place and same time with reverse questions on the same matter. I have not known this to occur.
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Nixander



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 17

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said - imagine. OK, they are in the same city and the interval is 5 minutes.
And I think that the most likely outcome would be -- that both charts (or the same chart for both) would turn up not radical or contradictory.

I suppose that asnwers Coffee's question.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be that the winner of the contest is not judged by the ascendant. Some of the work we are doing here attempts to determine whether the favourite gets the victory, or the underdog.

Good question, however - keeps us on our toes!

Leery
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Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nixander



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 17

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I understand you are assigning the favourite to the ASC. If that is the case, what or who determines which team is the favourite? By the bookmakers' odds? But the favourite can become the underdog during the course of the day (happens once in a while).
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