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Will we regret buying the house?

 
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meg



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Location: London, England

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Will we regret buying the house? Reply with quote

I would be very grateful for anyone's input on this question - "will we regret buying the house?"

Our offer for a house which is a wreck has been accepted and we are now both scared and not sure whether we should proceed!

We asked the question today 5 December at 09.45 GMT; London 51N30, 0W12.

Capricorn rises and so we are Saturn at 8 Virgo in the 8th showing our worry. The house is Venus at 29 libra 49 in the 9th of legal affairs about to change signs into Scorpio and into detriment. Saturn and Venus have some mixed mutual receptions indicating that a deal could be done.

This chart seems valid as the seller, Moon, has gone abroad and Moon is in the 9th.

There is no aspect between Saturn (us) and Venus (house). I think this means we shouldn't go ahead. Particularly as Venus is about to go into detriment (the house will worse than we think).

Moon in the via combusta sextiles Jupiter, co-ruler of our money (2nd house ruled by Aquarius with intercepted Pisces), I think this means that we are able to give the seller our money and the seller needs it rather badly. Moon doesn't conjunct Venus before she changes sign - meaning we pull out?

Any help in unravelling this would be very much appreciated.

Meg
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Last edited by meg on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Meg,

I think you've done a good job of analyzing your own chart (not an easy thing to do) but one thing you've overlooked is the mutual application by sextile of Mars Rx in 7th (seller) to Saturn (you and your money). This says that the deal will go through although there may be revisions of one kind or another given the Rx. As Mars is L10 (price) perhaps the price will be lowered in light of its "fixer-upper" condition? Not sure if this is possible as your offer has been accepted, but was it conditional on inspection and has the home inspection been done?

Also there is an aspect between your sig and L4 as Venus applies to the sextile of Saturn albeit by over 8 degrees and after she changes sign and goes into detriment. Something changes before the deal goes through. This supports the testimony of Rx Mars in 7th.

Good luck! Thumbs up

Tara
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meg



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Location: London, England

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tara

Thank you very much for your reply.

We made an offer and then had a survey after which we made a lower offer which was accepted.

You're right, its really difficult to read your own chart - how did I ignore the retrograde Mars?! When I try to read one of my own questions I seem to go blank like when sitting an exam. This chart really describes the situation well; the sellers have a relocation agent helping them. So two significators (Moon and Mars) make sense.

I hope you don't mind me being a pedant, but can you see any indicators in the chart which suggest we will regret buying this house? Do you think for example, that house 4 ruler Venus going into detriment signifies a negative outcome? Also, I'm confused about when one can still count an aspect once the significators change signs. On top of that when do you say a negative aspect = a "no" and a postive one = a "yes"? Or is it always more complicated than that; do you go with the 'flavour' ie benefic/neutral planets aspecting, even if by for example square = good?

In a nutshell, is the answer yes or no do you think? Perhaps its both? Confused
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Last edited by meg on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Meg,

One of the most important things I've learned about horary questions is that they ought to be rooted in a genuine need to know, and they should also be useful which, one could say, yours isn't because your offer has been accepted and you can't back out of the deal now. What good will it do to get a 'yes' answer to your question? The deal has been struck, the dye is cast and you simply have to make the best of things.

Venus is just about to leave Saturn's exaltation sign which, as you say yourself, suggests that you may indeed have had unrealistic expectations in regard to the house's condition. We can take heart, however, in L1's application to the trine of the 4th house cusp as well as L4's application to the sextile of both the Ascendant and L1. These suggest that you will be able to make the best of things, come what may. Thumbs up

One of the considerations before judgment is Moon in the via combusta. Perhaps this is a warning that you'd be better off not to press for an answer to your question, although I can understand why you'd want reassurance. Who wouldn't?

Best of luck!
Tara
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meg



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Location: London, England

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again Tara!

Thank you for your analysis I am very grateful for your input.

Even though we have made an offer and the seller has accepted it, we are not legally bound to continue with the transaction and the contract is only binding once both parties have signed the contract documents (this is UK law as it stands at present).

That is why we wanted to ask this horary in order to back out if we would come to regret our offer to buy.

Would you like to comment on whether you can see in the chart that we would regret buying the house? This straight yes or no answer may not be apparent I suppose. However, am I right in saying that in your judgement on the whole given the aspects between the ascending degree and the 4th house cusp and the ascendant ruler, Saturn and the ascending degree final outcome is a positive one?

Yeah, I know I'm pedantic that is why I find horary so challenging - it seems that it can always be either or and that any delineation can find evidence in a chart to support an argument either way.

Thanks very much for your time and happy holidays!

Meg
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Last edited by meg on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Meg,

I wonder why you want to buy this property. Is it to live in or is it to do up and sell on for a profit?

If you're going to live in it then I'd be worried about L4 about to lose its dignity, which has already been mentioned.

However, if you're doing it up then I wouldn't be so worried - the bad condition of the property is presumably how you got the low price in the first place.

If the true question is "Will I make a profit from this property" then of course we need to look at the 5th (2nd from the 4th, profit from the property). Lord 5 is also Venus (using Regiomontanus houses). This suggests to me that the profit will not be great (Venus moving into the sign of her detriment).

In my opinion Venus changing signs before the Moon perfects conjunction indicates this will not go ahead.

Will be interested to see what happens Smile

Keren
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Meg,

Quote:
we are not legally bound to continue with the transaction

Oh! Well that's a totally different kettle of fish. In that case, I would not seal the deal if it were mine to make. I don't think the saving graces of L1 trine 4th cusp, etc. are enough to make up for the worrisome fact that L4 is about to topple into the sign of its detriment. I also wonder about the reliability of the seller given Mars Rx in 7 and Moon (L7) in via combusta.

Keren makes a good point as well about L4 changing signs before the Moon (the seller) reaches it.

As I said, if it were my question, I would choose not to go ahead with buying the house based on this chart. Thumbs down

Cheers!
Tara
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meg



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Location: London, England

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Keren

Thank you very much for your analysis.

This house would be a holiday home so we want to live in it sometimes. However, we also want to make a profit as we are looking to invest in property for our old age! We would be fed up to renovate and find that we have written lots of cheques and endured lots of stress and to have just broken even.

My instincts tell me (without reference to this horary question) that there won't be much profit to be made at least in the medium term (and that the project could suck us both dry emotionally and financially). Neither of us enjoy renovation projects much.

However, we are worried that we are just wimps and should buck up and get on with the job (using a project manager) like lots of people do. Hence the question about regret.

In addition to the Moon Venus conjunction which doesn't perfect and what this indicates, namely that the deal falls through, does this override the Mars sextile to Saturn?

With the Moon in the via combusta - does that indicated we will be burned if we go ahead? Also the house now in detriment in Scorpio - is this another warning against proceeding?

My puzzler is sore!

Thanks again.

Meg
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Last edited by meg on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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meg



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Location: London, England

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tara

It seems I was replying to Keren whilst you were replying to me!

Thank you so much for your analysis. My intuition now coincides with your delineation. Lala Happy

Thank you for all your hard work and insight.

Meg
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Last edited by meg on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn is lord of the hour and ruler of the ascendant. As I have observed so many times before with this combination the question is asked back-to-front. You ask "Will we regret?" where a "yes" would affirm the negative and a "no" would mean you were safe. You actually intend to ask "Will we be pleased?"

Because of the nature of the agreement between the lord of the hour and the radical ascendant, you are safe. Saturn, lord of hour and ascendant, in trine to the ascendant. The matter is in order and can be persued.

Mars in the 7th is the significator of the seller and retrogrades to hasten the application to the lord of the ascendant, Saturn. Mars has dignities in the ascendant by exaltation, which is good for you. Mars is ruler of the Scorpio 10th, so the price comes down to meet you.

Moon is co-significator of the question and conjunct Spica, which gives protection. Lilly says Moon is safe here. She applies to the sextile of Jupiter who is almuten of the 7th. Jupiter is in the 12th, which equal to the 9th in the description of representing distant places.

Venus changing sign shows that the seller is in a hurry to get rid of the house. It cannot be without value, because Moon has dignities on the cusp of the 4th, too - by both exaltation and face. Venus is almuten of the 4th, but also has 5 essential dignities on the ascendant by triplicity and term. It is OK for you. But because Venus changes sign, maybe the house slips away from you?
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The chart makes more sense given the extra info, thanks Meg!

Personally I would not go ahead with this. I know an "ideal chart" is hard to come by but this one is far from ideal and as you've mentioned, your gut instinct is not to go ahead. It's not a legally binding agreement at this stage, my advice is to go with your gut instinct or you'll just feel even worse further down the line Smile

Keren
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meg



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Andrew

Thank you very much for your analysis of this horary chart.

It seems so obvious now that you point it out that the logical way to phrase any question is to ask it so that both the question and its answer coincide Thumbs up Thank you so much for this!

Your delineation indicates that if we bought this house it wouldn't be a complete disaster due to the protective relationships between all the significators. However, I don't feel that these positive indicators are enough to outweigh the negative ones and we have withdrawn our offer.

Thanks again.

Meg
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Last edited by meg on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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meg



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Location: London, England

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Keren

Thank you for your input again.

I feel much more confident that I have made the right decision to withdraw from this purchase now that you, Tara and Andrew all agree that the situation described in the chart, although not dire is not great either.

Thanks for your time and effort.

Meg
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