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The Native Horoscope, Moles, Marks and Scars.

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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: The Native Horoscope, Moles, Marks and Scars. Reply with quote

The other day, prompted by another discussion going on in the forum, I realised the association between a mole I have on my ankle, and the fact that I am Aquarius rising.

Saturn, natural significator of moles, is above the horizon, and the mole is indeed on the outside of the ankle, however, Saturn is a masculine planet, masculine sign, and the mole is upon my left ankle, not my right. (Unless Lilly was meaning left and right from the perspective of an external observer?).

I was really suprised that being so into astrology, I had never overtly recognised this before. I do feel partly that this is because I have always rolled my eyes up when it comes to the idea that we can identify a querent's warts and blemishes, merely from the initiation of a horary question, especially as I most often cast horaries for family and friends, and if this method works, you can only impress such querents once, if at all, and the exploration of moles and marks, rather takes us away from the business of answering the question. I also believe (while open to persuasion) that natal astrology cannot tell very much at all about the physical make-up, which I feel must essentially be carried in the chart for conception, for reasons that I would imagine were obvious?

However, this mole on my ankle has me intrigued...

My sister is Aries rising. When she was born she had a red mark above her left eye, we called it her 'ladybird', but perhaps it was what Lilly would have referred to as a 'red mole'. This mark eventually faded away as my sister matured, but still, I am intrigued that as an Aries rising she was born with a mark upon the head, and indeed, Mars is above the horizon, and the mark was at the front, however, as with in my case, Mars is masculine, and in a masculine sign, and the mark was on her left, although on the right to an external observer.

I really need someone to straighten me out on the left/right thing. Confused

I am thinking that if we are regarding the chart externally, and we are viewing ourselves in the chart, the it makes sense to view ourselves externally when it comes to the left/right orientation, like looking into a mirror.

These observations had me thinking, can such marks be used as clues for chart rectification? This sounds incredibly simplistic, but it is coincidental to me that I have a mole (Saturn) on my ankle (Aquarius), and my sister had a red mole (Mars) on her face (Aries). Something else that caught my interest was that my sister's mole vanished as she grew, and Aries is moveable, the mole on my ankle remains, and Aquarius is fixed.

When it comes to moles and marks, the one on my ankle is pretty much the only significant one I have. I am intrigued however, by two very small moles, perhaps the size of full-stops made by a fountain pen, which are symmetrically placed, so that if I was to put my hands into a praying position, the sides of my wrists that are facing me feature the two mirrored marks. I'm not sure how to explain this however, but I imagine that antiscia come into it somewhere, as the ankles reflect the wrists. I do have Venus in close conjunction with Saturn by antiscia (and Mercury, ruler of Gemini, in actual conjunction), but this doesn't seem to offer an enlightening explanation, unless anyone can identify something?

Upon thinking about this issue, I considered an older sister of mine, who's birth-time my mother recalls as 14.10, the trouble is, the horoscope produces an ascendant at Scorpio 28, and you know what that means, it leaves me deliberating over whether the ascendant is in fact early Sagittarius. I am more inclined to trust my mother's memory than I used to be, given that I found a birth record featuring my birth time just a few minutes short of her rounded memory, so I give this chart the big benefit of a little doubt, and thinking about how bodily marks may come into it persuades me more that this is the correct chart.

My older sister is a redhead, and she is one of those people that is completely speckled with freckles. Scorpio rises, making Mars the ascendant ruler, and for a redhead, this makes sense stereotypically, and for freckles, of course there is Mars again, but I did feel that Mercury has something to do with anything mottled, mixed, patchwork or 'particoloured'.

As it happens, this sister has Mars in Gemini. Mars is above the horizon, and of course, the freckles are plain to see. Also, there is no issue of specific placement in terms of her marks, such as with my own and my younger sister's marks, as the significators of which are in fixed signs, but the freckles are all over, perhaps reflected in the mutable sign? This causes me to think that her late Scorpio ascendant makes sense, and this must be her.

When it comes to scars, I can think of three of them that I have on my person, but I am inclined to imagine that scars would be brought about by transits and shouldn't be gleaned in the nativity should they? If they can, then this would seem fatalistic.

For a long time now, I have wanted to have some tattoo's done, for personal, spiritual and for social reasons. I have hesitated in the past, partly because I think that it is something that requires a lot of thought, and partly because I felt I was too young before, I feel tattooing is something for older men (say, 25+). Ever since Saturn (my Lord and significator, ruler of skin, ink and scarification), entered Virgo (my Sun sign, mutable earth = body modification), I have experienced an intensification of my desire to have these tattoo's that I have envisioned for so long, deciding that when Saturn is actually conjoined with my natal Sun, I will have my first tattoo, I somehow know this is the right time.

I am wondering if from my nativity anybody could possibly tell me what tattoo's a native such as myself would seek, and where upon my body I wish for them to be adorned?

To make it easier, of the many tattoo's I seek to adorn myself with, the ones I am particularly interested in having done are three different animals, but which animals would this native identify with to such an extent, and where upon the body for each of them?

I provide the data for the horoscopes I have referred to, feel free to tell me anything else you think you can find referring to bodily marks of any nature, and I'll provide feedback.

I was hoping that others would share their own experiences and provide their own data for us to discuss in light of this topic.

My data : 15th Sept. 1982, 17.56 (003-W-03 / 53-N-50)
Aries AC : 27th Oct. 1986, 16.00 (same coordinates).
Scorpio AC : 2nd Sept. 1975, 14.10 (same coordinates).
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Laura BT

Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently came up with the same question: is it possible to work backwards and rectify the chart by using people’s tattoos? (

With a ton of insight into a person’s personality, and by understanding his or her background, events, and interests, anything is possible: one could, more than likely, come to a fairly representative rectified chart. Although I have to agree with Tom, who said somewhere in this glorious forum, that working out a nativity is not quite as simple as working with Horary rules.

You queried:

I really need someone to straighten me out on the left/right thing.

As all listed by Keren on previous thread:
Left-right = feminine signs * Right side = masculine signs.

Seems to me that sometimes the rule works bang on the noggin (English expression for hitting the spot) and sometimes it doesn’t always get the bull’s eye target, but is usually thereabouts. I should also state that while this site is among the best there is for astrology (Bravo Deb!), I am not a horary gal - even though, coming from Deal, Kent, I did know Olivia Barclay for neigh on 30 years. So I did not note the time of the question re rectifying through tattoos. Nativities are more my interest, as is the process of personal development. Which leads me to your desire to tattoo an animal or three. Draco, wouldn’t your chosen images depend upon what you personally consider your totems, i.e. which animals you identity with, those that actually speak to and with you? May I suggest, if you haven’t already, that to make the experience of having an animal tattoo deeper and more meaningful that you note significant dreams and experiences in the waking life, where animals or instances of nature feature to affirm, warn, or reveal something otherwise obscured, as messengers of an emotion, thing, or idea?

Tattooing and the marking of the body is no small matter. It really is imperative that if you place something permanent on your body you believe is going to inspire you, along your path of personal evolution, for the rest of this life. Also, in my opinion, it is advisable not to pierce along certain areas of the body where the meridians lie (that relate to your own cosmic-psycho-anatomical body) unless you really know what you are doing. A lot of piercing (by the electric needles used in tattooing) can damage or hinder the powerful flow of subtle body energy (which one can become acutely aware of through the practice of meditation).

As with every subject there are different strokes for different folks, some people cannot tune into ipods, let alone a subtle body. Each of us has our own relative understanding of who we are and, as astrologers, our charts. As to who would go for the AA prayer (not the Astrological Association of GB – the other AA) blazoned upon his chest, as has Robbie Williams, presumably he needs to know this prayer intimately, or as Mr David Beckham has added to his forearm “let them hate me as long as they fear me”, much depends upon what one identifies with at any given stage of development. You are absolutely right, Draco, to have held off tattooing until you are certain of what you want – a Saturn exalted in Libra giving you a greater understanding of personal responsibility. Choosing a time is also important – the last thing you want is an ugly botched tattoo.

Of course with *Astroo*Tattoo* you can always have something you would rather emulate, than what you already astrologically have. But a chart like yours takes strong imagery; lion, eagle, snake or dove – anything that sparks off the 8th house Virgo Sun (left hand side), and Leo Moon (right hand side). Something pretty, like a single narcissus growing from a rock, would satisfy your Libra planets, but a hand sticking out to grab Persephone?! Any connotation of transformation, such as a fiery and mythical Phoenix rising from the ashes, might well please a Scorpionic nature as well as the Leo Moon. (Which side to put it on though? On the right hand or left hand side of your chest?! Maybe you need to decide which is the strongest? To my way of thinking it would be a close call: would it be the right side for the Moon in Leo close to Regulus, or left for the Virgo Sun sextile Scorpio Mars?).

With a name like Draco, maybe you’d like an ouroboros around your hara?! Only kidding! Laughing

Seriously, it’s very important to carefully consider what you are going to adorn your body with, by which artist, and when. Some people draw the design on themselves first in a washable ink, henna is good, and let it wear off which means it’s on for a good four weeks or more, which is a good biorhythm, to see if it resonates and so they know if they really do want it forever, or if it’s just a mercurial and faddish phase. That way you also know if a plutonic Phoenix, for instance, looks better on yer pecs or off the shoulder!

Regarding your mirrored antiscion wrist moles, it is interesting that they are on both, but one could easily attribute them to Mercury, sign of the twins, conjunct Saturn, in square to the nodes.

Interestingly, the nodal connection reminded me that in Tibetan astrology there is a system of numbers called sMewas, also referred to as moles, which are used to measure cycles of time. You can learn how to calculate the sMewa here from the wonderful Michael Erlewine:

(To find this number one uses a ba-gua, similar to the Chinese Flying Star Feng Shui, which is also the same square as out our traditional Seal of Saturn – but the Tibetans use a different method of computation and therefore have different results. So your Chinese number is not the same as the Tibetan sMewa (pronounced may-wa)). Amongst other things, the sMewas indicate lifespan as well as the placement of marks on the body. These moles, according to my late Tibetan astrology master, Professor Dagthon, are thought to be marks brought forward from previous lives. Now there’s food for thought…. Cool
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Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Interesting info about your family's moles! I've found some interesting correlations in my family's charts and their moles/scars too.

I've found that being red-headed usually goes with Mars making a hard aspect to the ASC. But this gives a seriously RED, ginger or brightly flame-coloured effect. If she's more a coppery-brown then maybe she doesn't need a hard Mars aspect to give that shade of hair.

Is that Mars in early Gemini? Could it oppose the ASC?

(People with Mars tightly opp ASC are usually easy to spot - they either shove their Mars down everyone's throats at the slightest opportunity or, conversely, give it away so completely that they seem to have been born without one Wink You have to ask if this fits your sister or not...)


PS Having lots of freckles can be linked with the Sun rising or making a hard aspect to the ASC Wink
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