In detriment or fall, but essentially dignified

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How do you interpret a planet that is in its fall, but still essentially dignified? Mars in Cancer is one of the most mind-baffling placements I encounter. Venus in Virgo by day poses the same problem.

With Mars in Cancer I think of a person who is hung up with the past and has domestic or family problems (Mars in fall) but who at the same time is blessed with financial resources and means, together with a fair social circle (Mars in triplicity).

A planet that is essentially dignified usually has a reason or mission for being there.

A woman signified by Venus in Scorpio was sent to hospital and in the midst of crises - but in capacity as a nurse. She brought relief to those who were in detriment and trouble.

But back to Mars in Cancer - I often observe that anything extra-ordinary is shown by the planets rulership/disposition by exaltation. So Mars in Cancer shows some extra-ordinary trouble relating to the house that has Capricorn on the cusp. However, when resolving questions that require perfection, or when Mars assists in leading to an answer, then the planets essential dignity by triplicity is far more obvious.

Please feel welcome to share your experiences or ideas!
http://www.astronor.com

2
Well, first of all, before I give my methaphor, I would say that we have to be careful about methaphors 8^D

Then, I would clarify that I don?t use the system of Lilly: so much points to terms, triplicity, exaltation, and add up, so I see rulership, exaltation and the minor dignities as qualitative different things.

So, I would compare mars in cancer to a person who has lack of concentration or focus in his energies; who is prone to feel frustration and anger against others, as he is the warrior who stay home for fear; he is prone to take this anger in others because he is so frustrated, is everyone?s elses fault.

Remind that I am speaking in metaphors... I am not saying that people with mars in cancer are that way ;-)
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com

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Mars can put up a good defense in Cancer - true, and protection is the way it needs to go. But the planet is infected and troubled in Cancer. Which beneficial effects are gained by its triplicity and how does detriment intermix with dignitiy. I would love some more opinions on this matter.
http://www.astronor.com

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I use Dorothean triplicity rulers.

When I see a planet in detriment or fall but having also the dignity of triplicity, I understand this as "that planet's best performance can be as much as the power of a planet having the honor of triplicity". So a Mars in Cancer for example in a chart and in its (the chart's) own context means a number of things. He remains to mean the same things when the planet is in detriment or in his triplicity.But the performance of the planet is open to vary from detriment or fall (corresponding to its worst level of performance) to triplicity (corresponding to the planet's best performance possible).

Regards,

Sigma

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Yuzuru says:
I don?t think they intermix... dignity gives power, and the fall gives corruption of nature
If you think Scorpio - and then put Mars in Cancer - do you think this is like a mafia? Corrupt, but the family will look out for you?

Or look at it another way, Mars in Cancer is like the yeast you use for baking and brewing, or the culture that turns milk to yoghurt?
http://www.astronor.com

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Well, Mars in Cancer is not totally helpless in my opinion.

First, people that I know with it will never, never, never, never, ever be directly agressive (or will be very rarely). If others are agressive with then, they cry, or stay with a lot of anger building up inside. The nature of the planet is corrupt as pointed.

Now, the Triplicity of Mars exists to cool it off (as much as that of Saturn exists to heat it up). Mars surely is cool enough in Cancer, so much that people with it only gets revenge or take advantage doing things in a hidden or sweet talking fashion, never showing true intentions, without any dignity and open sincerity, lacking courage as much as can be. Now, they do release their agressive traits, but not in an open way, and eventually get it their own way (wolf in sheep's disguise). If it has to be open, they cry and do not fight back, then awaits and try to find a work around. But that's my experience, and I wonder if anyone corroborates that.

So the way I see it, the fall grants the corruption of it and the triplicity restores some of it's agressive characteristics through an acceptable way to the corruption it is in. Like building a house in a wasteland.

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Happy New Year everyone!

I'm glad you raised this topic, Andrew - it caught my eye because I know several people with Mars in Cancer and, like you, I've found it puzzling because of its dual fall/triplicity status.

I found myself nodding in agreement with most of your initial comments : yes, hung up with the past, possibly to the native's detriment; and perhaps a troubled family heritage of some kind, alongside the accumulation of wealth.

I've also observed a strong, even obsessive interest in military history, battles and war games, and have seen this placement recurring in a family associated with sporting success (ie sport is a significant part of the family's heritage.)

Yuzuru's comments ring true too:
So, I would compare mars in cancer to a person who has lack of concentration or focus in his energies; who is prone to feel frustration and anger against others, as he is the warrior who stay home for fear; he is prone to take this anger in others because he is so frustrated, is everyone?s elses fault.
I've seen this as well. Mars in Cancer people can be very steamed up (fire & water!) in private and then be unable to express or act upon their strong feelings when given a public opportunity to do so. Of course, several other factors can modify how it's expressed eg an angular house position (plus the 6th where Mars is in his joy) and aspects to Mars. The houses ruled by Aries and Scorpio, and the planets in those signs are likely important too.

The passive-aggressive behaviour PFN describes also fits, and I've observed that Mars in Cancer people approach things - people, problems, jobs, parties, even shop counters! - in a crab-like, sideways manner. They can seem hesitant and lacking in confidence, but can also be surprisingly tenacious (they don't give up) and in some situations, highly effective.

I've pulled some examples of people with Mars in Cancer from my Solar Fire database - a very interesting list, which includes:

Mozart - Mars in Cancer in 10th.
John F. Kennedy Jnr - Mars in 10th house, trines Mercury in Scorpio, opp. Saturn/Venus in Capricorn in 5th, Aries on 8th cusp.
Rupert Murdoch - Mars in 8th, widely opposing Saturn in Capricorn.
Robin Williams - Mars in late 8th, trines Moon, Scorpio Asc.
Stephen King - Mars in late 12th (just over 5 deg from the Asc), trine Jupiter in Scorpio, Aries MC.
Henry Winkler - Mars conjunct Saturn in 6th trine Mercury in Scorpio close to MC, Sun in Scorpio in 9th.
An interesting & tragic pair, born 3 weeks apart in 1946: Karen Silkwood (Mars conjunct a really debilitated Saturn in Cancer, in the 9th but close to the MC, squaring the Libra Asc & Aries on the 7th) & Liza Minnelli (Mars conjunct Saturn & Moon around the IC, Scorpio on 7th.
and finally, an infamous example, John Hinckley - Mars in 5th, Scorpio MC, and Saturn in Scorpio in 9th.

I'm certainly interested to see what else comes up on this topic.
Last edited by SusanA on Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I've just realised how long ago Andrew kicked off this particular topic and that it's really PFN's recent contribution which has brought the whole discussion forward again. Shows how long it takes me to catch up with the rich network of conversations going on here!!

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Hi All!

I have a Mars in Cancer in the cusp of the MC and it?s the more elevated planet in the chart.
I don?t know if I?m a typical case, because I?m an Aries with a Scorpio Moon. Mars aspects several planets: Jupiter, Venus and Saturn, the last one in the MC as well. It aspects also the Moon, by sign .

I imagine that Mars cool my fire a bit, but I don?t know if Saturn is the real responsible for it. I?m an impulsive person, since I have all my planets in cardinal signs and house, the Moon being the only exception.
I can feel I?m driving a boat carefully, through turbulent waters. The maturity gave me some skill for the task, but it is not easy.
I recognize in myself the fear to act in a violent manner. Sometimes I feel blocked to answer and when I was young I was unable to handle with agressivity: I used to cry and to hold grudges ( Moon in Scorpio).

Mars is the Almutem Figuris of the chart and I?m recognized for the courage I have to take difficult decisions. I can say I have no fear of life.
In the Astrodatabank database there are some examples of persons with Mars/Saturn in Cancer, the worst conjunction that exists, and several of them had difficult lives, depression and suicide.
I lived an unhappy life when I was teenager, but when I decided to accept myself and do what I was supposed to do by my chart the depression flew away.
Very interesting is that someone observed that Mars in Cancer used to grab things: I?m exactly like that. I love my antiques and all old things in general, but all of them are not detrimental, just the opposite, they are beautiful things( Venus rules my ASC).
I?m obsessive when the issue is reaching a certain goal: I am tenacious and I don?t give up.
I had deep family ties; my family loved me exuberantly and tried to protected me (and spoiled me), but several times they interfered drastically in my life. But they were a really support. It was a big family, and my uncle used to say we were like the Mafia, LOL. Andrew said the word Mafia, and it?s interesting that it was a concept I learned: the family was my shelter but inside it I had to obey their rules, some of them really restrictives.
That is my testimony: but I don?t know if I?m a typical case.
Very interesting topic! I have to say I have several doubts about fall and detriment. For example my Venus is Aries is exaggerated but not bad, my Saturn in Cancer gives me a sense of extra responsibility. I agree though the Moon in fall is complicated and Saturn occupying the MC often destroys my profession: not because of its celestial state, but because the mundane position.

Concluding: In my experience, a malefic is always a malefic. A dignified Saturn in Capricorn in the 12th is awful, since it rules the ASC.
Saturn in bad celestial state is not as bad because it has less strenght to destruct. But if a malefic occupies an angle, soon or later it will destroy the matter.
The opposite occurs with the benefics: the Sun, Moon, Venus: if they are in fall they are reponsible for many problems in the sign and house they are.

(Bonatti must be turning in his grave;-))

Clelia
http://www.astrologiahumana.com

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I also have Mars in Cancer in the 10th. It trines my Venus in Scorpio and I think has helped me to maintain friendship with all of my ex-lovers. Perhaps that is holding on to the past! I know I do like to relive my past but less so now than when I was younger. I also had/have a problem with aggression but I think it's due to the fact that Mars squares my Mercury in Libra (which conjuncts my Moon and Sun in Libra on the Ascendant) so my problem was with being too aggressive with my words and having to learn how to tell the truth without being hurtful or assuming my opinion was the right one. The interesting thing is nobody believes me when I say that I was shy when I was younger. I am perceived as being able to stand up for myself and not being willing to take bs. But I definitely hate to do it.