Call for Decumbitures--No Symptoms, Please 1 by spirlhelix Greetings, Skyscripters! I am interested in starting up a project to compare the accuracy of rectifed and non-rectified decumbiture charts. I am requesting decumbitures which contain no more than the following information: Question Time Date Year Location Age Gender If the question inherently describes symptoms, please rephrase it to say something like: "Are (these symptoms) caused by a serious illness which will require surgery?", in order to mask information which would otherwise confirm the accuracy of the chart interpretation. Goodness, I hope that's clear as mud. . . I use Lilly's techniques for rectification. If you would like to participate in this study and do not choose to publish your "scars, marks, and moles" to the world, you may instead correspond with me through PM until we have a valid, rectified chart. After that time I hope to publish here on the list the resulting rectifications and descriptions of parts of the body affected: both with the rectified, and the unrectified chart, together with the querent's remarks on which chart describes the parts of the body affected more accurately according to their experience. There is no charge to have your decumbiture part of the study, of course. But for the purpose of the study, I will limit myself to confirming the accuracy of information gathered from recified and non-rectified charts. Reading decumbitures is a complex process because there is so much information to be found on the chart. And unless you are interested in humoral medicine or have some idea what to do with this information, it is pretty dry reading, too. So for the purpose of reading multiple charts, I propose to limit myself to confirming the accuracy of the rectified and unrectifed charts by describing the parts of the body affected. Anyone like to test Lilly's chart rectification techniques? Regards, Pam "Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance" Quote Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:02 pm
2 by ped Greetings Pam, Is your study just for horary questions or are you analysing and rectifying natal charts for symptons? I'm up for the test, but not sure if I needed to have asked a question already. Brave lady, ped Quote Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:55 am
3 by LeeLu Hi, I'd like to participate with this decumbiture. I recorded the time of when the first symptoms appeared, the time of first lying down: female 38 16 May 2007 5:45 pm EDT +4 Toronto, Canada 43N39 079W23 Quote Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:45 pm
Happy to have your response 4 by spirlhelix Hi, Ped! In order to study a decumbiture, we need a time when the illness started; or when the patient first acted on his illness; spoke to a doctor about his illness, for example, or went to bed (when he would otherwise have stayed up) feeling too sick to continue his normal activities. This time is often hard to pin down. People who are feeling sick are apt to forget when they got so miserable they went to bed. Sick people who have called the doctor do not know the exact instant when he got their message. For this reason, (and because dear Lilly recommends it), I rectify decumbitures. I start with a general time for when the sick person called the doctor or went to bed (whichever came first), then hone it down using Lilly's techniques for scars, marks and moles. If you would prefer not to discuss your marks in public (here on the list), then you can post me privately to nail down your rectified decumbiture time. Either way, I would be interested in hearing from you about your decumbiture! It is also appropriate to ask a question about the illness; the time you first asked the question is not so critical. If we have a true decumbiture time, any possible question you can ask about the illness is answered on the chart. Just let us know what question you have about your illness to give us focus when we look at the chart. On my part, I will be attempting to pinpoint the area/areas of the body which were affected by the illness; this is something you should be able to test for validity. If the attempt to pinpoint a decumbiture time is unsucessful, we can always use a horary chart for questions about illness. But I am afraid I cannot use horary charts in this study of decumbitures, since it would be like comparing apples and oranges. Thanks for your willingness to help! with warmest regards, Pam Last edited by spirlhelix on Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total. "Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance" Quote Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:53 am
5 by spirlhelix Hi, LeeLu Thanks for being willing to look at this decumbiture here on the list! First, can you tell me what question you wanted to ask about this decumbiture? Second, would you like to rectify it right here on the list, or would you rather contact me to discuss the pertinent scars, marks and moles through private message? I will follow your lead. Best wishes, Pam "Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance" Quote Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:00 am
6 by LeeLu Hi Spirlhelix, I am not sure if there's a need to rectify the chart since I wrote down the exact time when I first experienced symptoms? I looked at the clock, immediately. I submitted the data because you wished to pinpoint the area/areas of the body which were affected by the illness. The chart is very radical, and I didn't have any questions at the moment of "lying down". Regards Quote Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:41 pm
Rectified vs non-rectified charts 7 by spirlhelix Hi, LeeLu For the sake of experiment, then, your chart as it is should show scars, marks and moles as Lilly describes. Locating them will simply serve to prove the validity of the chart. Your rectified and non-rectified charts may be identical, but we won't know until we try to rectify it. So, how do you feel about discussing scars, marks and moles on this list? Would you rather send me a private message? You did not have to have questions at the moment of lying down. That would be a horary chart. For a decumbiture, we ask a question (at any time it occurs to us) simply to add focus to the chart. There is far too much information to examine on the chart otherwise. Regards, Pam "Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance" Quote Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:34 am
8 by LeeLu Hi, I wouldn?t exactly know how to test the validity, being new to these techniques, I can only say, that this chart is for sudden, and severe kidney stone attack (Asc is in Libra but luckily, conjunct Spica). There are no visible scars, moles or marks, but there was probably a severe tearing inside the ureter? I guess strong Mars in 6th, house of his joy and sign of his rule would be responsible for that? Quote Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:59 am
Mark of the Ascendant 9 by spirlhelix Hi Leelu Thanks for sharing the chart! If, at the moment you looked at the clock, the clock was completely accurate (we have to assume that the clock was not losing or gaining time for accidental, mechanical, or any other reason), and this was the actual moment of decumbiture, Lilly says you would have a Mark of the Ascendant as described: In this case, the mark of 23 Libra would be found on the front of the body, most likely on the left side, below the navel (0 Libra) and above the pubic bone (0 Scorpio). It would be found about two-thirds of the way down the belly from the navel toward Scorpio. The mark would not have to be caused by your illness; Lilly describes three to six marks for any natal, horary, or decumbiture chart, regardless of the cause or effect of the event described. These do not have to be the biggest, or darkest, or most impressive marks on your body. They do not have to be directly related to your illness. They merely have to be visible with the naked eye. Small ones are just as good as big ones. They will be used to identify you as the person who belongs to this chart--just as scars, marks, or moles might be used to identify a criminal or, heaven forbid, a CSI victim. All this description of marks becomes rather personal, which is why I offer the option of discussing your marks via private message. We would also find marks for the Moon and the cusp of the sixth house. In your chart, the accuracy of the time of the chart to within a matter of minutes makes the difference between a twelfth house cusp in Libra (a Venus disease), or a twelfth house cusp in Virgo (a Mercury disease). We can use the marks on your body to validate that the time you took your chart was accurate. Obviously, now that we know what your diagnosis was, this seems redundant. However, I find it quite fascinating that the great astrologer doctors of so many years ago diagnosed patients without the benefit of knowing their modern-day diagnosis. I think if we are careful with times of decumbiture, we can approximate their impressive results. So, do you have a mark of the Ascendant as described? Please let us know. Regards, Pam Lilly says of the scars, marks and moles found on a chart: "if you have taken the time aright, these rules seldom fail". "Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance" Quote Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:04 am
10 by LeeLu Fascinating! Thanks for the extensive explanation, Spirlhelix, and yes, I do have a small mole-like mark exactly on the spot (on the left side) which you described! Quote Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:50 am
sorry about the hiatus 11 by spirlhelix No problem, Lee Lu. Sorry about the delay in responding to your last post. I have been dealing with family matters; my mother, who has been having medical issues, passed away this week. I hope to be able to correspond more regularly when I am a bit further down the path of transition. I would like to establish whether you have a few more marks to validate your chart before discussing what it reveals about your recent illness. I will be sending more questions about your marks, moles and scars very soon. I hope you will forgive me if my postings are erratic for a little while. Warmest regards, Pam "Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance" Quote Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:46 pm
Mark of the Moon; Marks of Sixth and Twelfth Cusps 12 by spirlhelix Hi, Lee Lu The next mark to look for to validate your chart is the mark of the Moon. Look for a mark, scar or mole on the lower part of your throat, a bit above the collar bone. The chart indicates it is visible from the front. It is most likely found on the left side of center. It is not a coincidence that the Moon conjuncts Algol, and the mark of the Moon is in the Algol region of the throat. For the final mark, I would be interested in seeing a mark described by either the cusp of the sixth or the twelfth house cusp. The mark of the Sixth House cusp is on the top of the head (scalp), on the right side, and visible when someone is looking at your back. The mark of the Twelfth House cusp is at the level of the navel, on the left side of the body, and visible from the front. Can you tell us whether you also have any of these marks? Thanks for your assistance! Warmly, Pam "Id rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance" Quote Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:08 am