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2 by Gem
I don`t think there`s any specific rule against it apart from the very last degrees but the late degrees usually indicate that current situation/circumstances are coming to an end, entering into a new phase or environment.
Last edited by Gem on Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

3 by Gunhilde
I would also look to the strength of the Ascendant ruler at the time of the election, in this case Jupiter. Is he still in Sagittarius, and therefore strong?

I also don't think 26 degrees is *late* late. :)

GH

4 by Tom
Anyone know if there's a rule against starting an election with
the Ascendant in its late degrees?

For example the Ascendant at 26 degrees Pisces.
I think this is an interesting question. If late degrees, (usually defined at 27-30) make a horary chart "unreadable," as some might argue, then wouldn't it seem likely that they would have an effect on an election, which is a horary read backwards.

There are differences. An election is an event chart selected in advance. We don't refuse to judge event charts in advance though (e.g. sports picks) if there are late degrees rising or if there is a void Moon or if Saturn is in the 7th house or if any other of the so-called "strictures" are violated.

I think it might be worthwhile to turn this question around a bit. Do the considerations before judgment apply anywhere besides horary and if not why not? I'm not saying that if any of the considerations show up in an event cart that the chart should therefore be considered unreadable. This is nonsense. I'm only wondering if the considerations are worthy of their fearsome reputation in horary charts, if they apply nowhere else.

Tom

5 by Gunhilde
Interesting question, Tom.

I did an event chart for an interview my husband was having, and it came up with an early ascendant (-3 degrees). I don't have the chart to hand, but I thought this might be significant at the time; it turned out that it took him over a month to get final approval for the job from the 'highest up', so the early ascendant could have been an indication of something that had just sprouted and needed to grow a bit before fruition.

I'll dig that chart up and post the details, if I can, to see if it still makes sense.

Surely the correlations between a horary chart and an event chart can't be ignored, can they, or only work on one but not the other?

IMO even a horary chart with a late/early ascendant can be read (with some degree of caution), and just because the chart doesn't meet all the Considerations doesn't mean it isn't a meaningful chart. In an election chart we have the same symbolism as in a horary, but obviously a degree of flexibility; we can choose our ascendant if we wish or have that option. If we are electing for an event that has a very late degree ascending, does that mean that the event is too late? I don't think so.


Best,
GH :)

6 by Tom
IMO even a horary chart with a late/early ascendant can be read (with some degree of caution), and just because the chart doesn't meet all the Considerations doesn't mean it isn't a meaningful chart.
I think you're exactly correct. The considerations, and calling them "strictures" as does Barbara Watters, is an abomination, are warning signs or red flags. They are not a prohibition. John Frawley teaches his students: The saying is 'As above, so below' not 'as above so below every now and then.' "

If the considerations are only prohibitions in horary, then maybe they aren't prohibitions at all.

Tom

7 by j0e
Gem wrote:I don`t think there`s any specific rule against it apart from the very last degrees but the late degrees usually indicate that current situation/circumstances are coming to an end, entering into a new phase or environment.
Thanks

8 by j0e
Gunhilde wrote:I would also look to the strength of the Ascendant ruler at the time of the election, in this case Jupiter. Is he still in Sagittarius, and therefore strong?

I also don't think 26 degrees is *late* late. :)

GH
Yes - Jupiter is going to be at 11 degrees 58 seconds in Sag in the 9th.

I asked the ascendant question because I know there's an election/horary rule that if Jupiter was at 28 degrees of Sag, it loses its dignity.

26 degrees not late - Thanks
Last edited by j0e on Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

9 by j0e
Tom wrote:
Anyone know if there's a rule against starting an election with
the Ascendant in its late degrees?

For example the Ascendant at 26 degrees Pisces.
I think this is an interesting question. If late degrees, (usually defined at 27-30) make a horary chart "unreadable," as some might argue, then wouldn't it seem likely that they would have an effect on an election, which is a horary read backwards.

There are differences. An election is an event chart selected in advance. We don't refuse to judge event charts in advance though (e.g. sports picks) if there are late degrees rising or if there is a void Moon or if Saturn is in the 7th house or if any other of the so-called "strictures" are violated.

I think it might be worthwhile to turn this question around a bit. Do the considerations before judgment apply anywhere besides horary and if not why not? I'm not saying that if any of the considerations show up in an event cart that the chart should therefore be considered unreadable. This is nonsense. I'm only wondering if the considerations are worthy of their fearsome reputation in horary charts, if they apply nowhere else.

Tom

Thanks for opening the discussion.

10 by SaturnReturn
2d. If 27 or more degrees of any sign ascend, it is not safe to give judgment, except the querent be in years corresponding to the number of degrees ascending, or unless the figure be set upon a time certain, viz. any event happening, such as a man went away or fled at such a time precisely; to learn the result: here you may judge, because it is no propounded question.

- Lilly, Chapter XIX, CA

12 by Kim Farnell
Personally, I avoid the last couple of degrees in an electional chart for two reasons.

Firstly, the last two degrees of any sign are in the terms of either Saturn or Mars, and whoever's rules you go by, you're supposed to avoid an unfortunate ascendant. As far as I read that, yes there is a rule against setting an election with the ascendant in late degrees.

Secondly, I've found that you have to allow for the fudge factor. People often waiver from the time you've elected - watch set wrongly, transport problems etc etc - which means that they can easily end up in the next sign. That next sign could shift the balance of the chart disasterously and it isn't worth risking.

Kim
www.kimfarnell.co.uk
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