London- chart?

1
I've seen various references to London city having an ascendant of 11 Gemini, and am sure I heard someone say once that there was a "chart" printed in some book or other.

Although I am presuming that, if a chart exists it would have been computed in a later century and not a real foundation moment, I am still curious. Does anyone have any knowledge of whether such a chart exists or of where the 11 degree Gem came from originally. Thanks

3
Gemini is certainly the traditional ascendant sign for London, although I've seen a number of different degrees listed. not sure who's responsible for the 11 degrees one.

From Zadkiel's introduction to his version of Christian Astrology and quoted in lots of other places:
...Lilly...The Bull's North Horn, a star which, Ptolemy says, is "like Mars," was, in the year 1666, when the fire occurred, in ? 17? 54', which is the exact ascendant of London. It was, no doubt, by this means Lilly judged the city would suffer by fire; for in his Almanac for 1666 he states, that the 19th degree of ? is London's horoscope."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/aia/aia03.htm

25 Gemini is traditional. Pearce (Zadkiel) goes for the 15th March 1824 9:21 am for the building of London Brirdge.

However, more recently people seem to use the GLC chart of 31st March 1965, 11 PM GMT, even though the GLC no longer exists, there hasn't been anything else that cohesive since to calculate a chart around.

Kim
www.kimfarnell.co.uk

7
.............................................................................................
Entrance of the ugly editor.

Second thoughts kill the joy. It was fun while I had the first thought.
Last edited by ### on Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

9
Kirk - you are too cruel, everyone reading this thread will want to know what it is you had second thoughts about....

Thank you to those who have posted various degree information.
Kim, I originally had that 17 54 degrees in my head . In the absence of any texts to look at (almost all my books are in store) I did I quick google and found a reference to 11 degrees instead and assumed that I had remembered wrong. I never realised there were so many recent options but I am looking for something pre 1694.

It is also interesting to note that a London ascendant of 19 Gemini gives a the MC of 13 referred to by Siderum. So there is definitely consistency here.

10
I have to ask...why 1694?

The 17 Gem 54 reference goes back to at least 1661 as it's from one of Lilly's almanmacs of that date

According to the Book of World Horoscopes, Francis Bernard (roughly contemporary with Lilly) gave three sensitive degrees of 8, 14 and 25 Gemini, but this is from a second hand reference. I *think* I know where the origin of that is as I looked at some of Bernard's papers recently and could have another quick peep when I'm in the library next week.

No doubt other almanacs would give London chart data, but it would be an extremely laborious search to find the references.

Kim

Edited to add...obviously I'm waiting for someone to tell me what I missed Kirk saying :D
www.kimfarnell.co.uk

11
It was just something inappropriate that came out when I was feeling very cranky. Those moments of crankiness are when I should crawl into a hole somewhere. The greatest sin was its lack of art.

12
I have to ask...why 1694?
No fascinating mystery I'm afraid. I was doing something on the City of London as a trading and financial centre ( as opposed to government/polictical) and wanted dates before the founding of the Bank of England which was in 1694.

I suppose it is too much to hope that Lilly explained why he used the degree he did! I think I'm curious enough now to do a bit of laborious library research myself.