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Should we tolerate 'one planet conjuncts another?'
Yes
55%
 55% 
No
44%
 44% 

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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3917
Location: England

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not accept defeat Kirk? It would be really good if astrologers had one less thing to disagree about Smile
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SaturnReturn



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do any of you experience a peculiar curling of the toes when you hear that one planet conjuncts another? Are any of you past the stage of whispering the correct conjoins and now find yourself screaming it?


I agree. Conjunct is an adjective. How hard is it to throw in a little verb like "is" or "are" or "will"?

Conjuncts and Conjuncting are wrong. Conjunct is a descriptive term, describing the state of something. You can't simply throw an -ing or an -s to make it an action. It's sloppy English.

Incorrect: Venus conjuncts Jupiter.

Correct: Venus is conjunct Jupiter.
Variations: Venus will be conjunct with Jupiter, Venus is conjunct Jupiter, Venus and Jupiter are conjunct, etc.

I stand with you Kirk!

P.S. - I heard a NBC news anchor on TV the other day say they were "efforting" to bring me more information on a story. An anchor.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1381

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb,

For a bleak moment I almost gave in to the forces of darkness, .. Idea .. but your post and its barely concealed underlying tone of despair and surrender inspired me to continue the battle. After all, those busy astrologers will still be arguing anyway.Neutral

For out of respect for astrology’s long-standing and deep connection to Western thought and civilization standards of excellence must be kept strongly in place. SaturnReturn, Keren and I will conjoin and fearlessly face Christina’s advancing unwashed horde Exclamation
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Christina



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: usa

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk,

Not to worry about the “unwashed” - there are no plebes on this wave.

SaturnReturn

Quote:
Conjunct is a descriptive term, describing the state of something. You can't simply throw an -ing or an -s to make it an action.


Synonyms for conjunct do exactly what you describe: joined, conjoined, shared, merged, united, combined. Drop -ed or change it to –ing or –s and they become appropriate verbs. The context is academic terminology, which is very different from the context of general language usage. If the context were general usage, I would agree. Btw, the NBC news anchor’s use of "efforting" may have been correct because effort is also a verb. At least, it was a verb as recently as William Lilly’s day. The anchors seem to have resurrected it from obsolescence to indicate a stronger effort than trying.

If anyone can point out some astrological meaning, function or understanding that is lost or altered unfavorably, then I will hasten to reconsider my position on the use of conjunct as a verb (any Uranus-ing of Aquarius does not count). Astrological conjunctions are dynamic (of or relating to energy or to objects in motion - active). The heavenly bodies and points related are in motion. Imo, even more reason for a verb form.

It is curious that sextile is not a verb but trine is a verb.

Christina
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SaturnReturn



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Btw, the NBC news anchor’s use of "efforting" may have been correct because effort is also a verb.


From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: ef·fort
Pronunciation: 'e-f&rt, -"fort
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Old French esforz, esfort, from esforcier to force, from ex- + forcier to force

Although the etymology suggests that it was once a verb, just not in English.
There is no entry for "efforting" - thank god.

Fight on Brothers! THIS IS SKYSCRIPT!
*Cue techno music and slow-motion*
*Kicks Christina's emissary into a pit*

Very Happy
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3917
Location: England

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I can't decide anymore. I started off agreeing with Kirk, but the unwashed Christina has made some good points. I don't think I've ever said one planet conjuncts another, but I have said one planet trines another, or one planet sextiles another, which I suppose is equally incorrect.
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 740
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to side with Kirk. There is difference between what is technically correct and what is "in-use".

*Albumazar and Abu Ma'shar Bulkhi join the battle* Laughing
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Morpheus


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dream of in your philosophy" Shakespeare

"All that matters on the chessboard is good moves" Bobby Fischer
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: England

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May as well try to settle this thing, so I've added a poll.
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Yikkes!



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 305

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please advise which option gives "Kirkie" the biggest Kicking !!

H.
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Yikkes!
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Tracey



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 61
Location: New Zealand

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here's something else to make Kirk's toes curl. I have always wondered why you can say "antiquity" but not "uniquity"...after all, antique and unique are very similar. Antiqueness sounds completely wrong but uniquity rings well.

I'm really putting my neck on the line here as one of the unwashed
Tracey
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Christina



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: usa

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oxford English Dictionary (OED) cites effort as a verb, “to strengthen, fortify”.

Quote:
1662 Fuller Worthies (1840) He efforted his spirits with the remembrance…of what formerly he had been. (OED)


I did not say it was correct, only that it “may be correct”. It is definitely an English word but fell into obsolescence until reporters resurrected it. There is no need to go postal - especially conjoined as you are with others it could start a cyber riot. You are on the Imperialist linguistics team. Riot starts are for the Plebes.
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Christina



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: usa

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb,

Skyscript members can always bank on your candor and fair judgment. Smile I refer to sharing your past usage of sextile and trine. It is a puzzle how only one of the two is a verb.

Thank you for setting up a poll. I find it a helpful leveler.
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SaturnReturn



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oxford English Dictionary (OED) cites effort as a verb, “to strengthen, fortify”.


Pah! Oxford. What do the English know about speaking English anyway?

Well, even if it is a verb in England, the news anchor still used the improperly. She meant that the news team was "putting forth an effort" to bring me the story. Is endeavoring a word?

As far as the topic goes, good points about trine and sextile. But are they verbs? They are definitely adjectives because they describe the situation between two(or more) planets. Would it be more proper to say Venus is trine Saturn, instead of Venus trines Saturn?

And as far as going postal, I prefer to go medieval. Although, with your reference to 17th century verb usage, I'd say you were going renaissance.
Smile

But no, you're right. I should take more of authoritarian stance when it comes to this subject, as a member of the Imperial faction. It just feels like we are being overrun by the roman mob, as it were.

Does anyone remember how to diagram a sentence?
I wonder how much of my contemporary American movie quotes are lost on you guys.

Smile
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1381

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Languages do change, but that doesn’t really concern us and our individual lives. The larger issue, which does concern us and which enters directly into our lives, is the issue of excellence. We are all aware of the qualities possessed by a well-educated person and we see how such a person is viewed in society. So rather than granting language the permission to change, which it will do anyway, let’s look at ourselves and how our use of language here and now places us among our peers and contemporaries.

If you’re giving a presentation at an astrology conference you can surely say that Mars 'conjuncts' Saturn without worrying about a mass movement toward the exits. You probably won't even hear any giggling – about your verb choice, anyway. You can be sure that there are those in the audience who heard your mistake, and these people tend to be the most educated. It is possible to become very snobbish about these things, but the fact is that well-educated people do have a kind of power over us. They embody standards that we respect and admire, and that society rewards. Even those of us who don’t claim to respect and admire them are still aware that these people are of a different caliber – a caliber that society looks up to. Our use of language places us in our society, whether we like it or not. But for me that isn’t the most important reason to correct mistakes of grammar and vocabulary. I find it challenging and fun to push myself to a higher linguistic standard. Until three years ago or so I said that planets 'conjuncted'. When I discovered my mistake I knew to correct it. I knew to move up.

Instead of settling for a lower standard by counting on the future acceptability of a word or grammatical form, we can improve our present style and increase our effectiveness of articulation now. One word at a time. Wink
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Ficina
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 1807
Location: Kent, England

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I prefer to go medieval

Whereas I prefer to go mediaeval Razz
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