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Epsom Derby, 2007
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Ficina
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 1807
Location: Kent, England

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further info on Sue Magnier. Her racing colour is dark blue. Horses are Chinese Whisper, Mahler and Soldier of Fortune.
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 400
Location: Wales

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

If you were referring to the importance of the numbers, well, I don't know why Amelia listed them


Oh dear, I seem to have unintentionally created a mystery. I copied the race card accross and deleted all the other fields but for some reason the numbers were in the same field as the names, I was too lazy to go down the list and delete them so just copied the final list over names and all. I didn't attach any significance to the numbers and it never occurred to me that others would. Sorry.

I've had a look at all the horses' birthcharts in relation to the race and will be back later to post my final conclusions. It requires extra effort, looking at small differences in planetary position, for races like the Derby when, by definition, they are all born within a few months of each other.

By the way, although Aqaleem does have a Pisces sun I think the name may be more descriptive of its moon/neptune conjunction in Aquarius


Last edited by amelia on Fri May 25, 2007 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 400
Location: Wales

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my first attempt at a flat race, so I am not expecting much from it other than to learn, but everyone might as well all learn from my mistakes so here goes:-

First some general remarks. Because these are all 3 years olds, born between Feb and May 2004, there are some common themes in all the charts which can be ignored as they do not help differentiate one horse from another. The Derby chart has a Mars Jupiter trine with both in their own signs great for a horse race (!). Many of the colts also have an applying Mars Jupiter trine in their charts. However they are 3 years old so almost all have Jupiter in Virgo square the race Jupiter and thus quincunx the race Mars which is not so great for them. And the race mercury is conjunct almost all the horses Saturns. The race chart has another spanner to throw in the works with Pluto and the moon quincunx the MC /Venus position so charts which make a favourable aspect to one then have the other negative.

For ease of analysis I have broken the runners down into 5 groups:
Early Feb born
Arabian Gulf
Lucarno
Authorized
Jalil
Admiralofthefleet

Late Feb
Soldier of Fortune
Acapulco
Eagle Mountain
Eastern Anthem
Anton Checkov

March 12- 27
Leander
Aqaleem
Chinese Whisper
Salford Mill

Mid April
Regime
Yellowstone
Mahler
Kid Mambo
Mythical Kid

May
Petara Bay
Strategic Prince
Archipenko



Dealing with the first batch of horses:- Authorized is currently the bookies favourite but unless the horse was born around midnight (in which case it will have its moon trine the Derby MC and be very promising) there does not seem to be much to separate it from the other four - All these horses have the Derby sun conjunct their Neptune with Saturn opposing and I would be inclined to pick Admiralofthefleet or Jamil over Authorized.

The next batch all have venus on the Derby descendant, Unfortunately I havent been able to yet work out whether a planet like Venus on the Descendant is significant and how Saturn Uranus etc are usually a negative sign. I prefer MC aspects when looking for positives and none of this group have any. Since the latter part of this group have their Mars picking up, on the one hand a sextile to Uranus but on the other a square to Saturn as well as race Sun square their Sun, my choice here is Soldier of Fortune, just because its chart makes a lot of aspects to the MC and it has its Venus conjunct the race Mars (or quite possibly because it the name just appeals to me!)

Moving on to the March borns. These look much more promising. I really like Aqaleem with natal and progressed sun and mars as well as progressed moon all positively aspecting the race MC and Venus. Obviously that means the Pluto moon conjunction is negatively aspecting these planets but overall this looks quite good. Despite similar aspects Im discounting Chinese Whisper and Leander as Aqaleem has the edge. Salford Mill is another horse where I could do with an exact birthtime (!) as there is a possibility that it has progressed moon on the race MC which would clinch it for me as the horse has venus sextile venus too.

Of the April horses only Regime stands out with few negative aspects to the race chart and repeating the moon pluto conjunction. The rest all have Sun or Mercury conjunct the race descendant as well as the race Uranus square their Mars, which together dos not look favourable and the last three have sun square the race MC too.

Despite, or perhaps because, the fact that these later born horses have neither the Jupiter square nor the Mercury Saturn aspect to the race chart, the two early May horses Petara Bay and Strategic Prince, just dont pick up enough aspects to the race chart other than some hefty oppositions to Pluto. Difficult to get excited about either of these. Archipenko however is another horse with a progressed moon probably in aspect to the MC ( trine). But it has an interesting double whammy with race Jupiter opposing its Sun and race Sun squaring its Jupiter, it also has some tricky aspects to the race Mars. Maybe does well early on then fades.


So after all that Id choose:-
1) Aqaleem best all round chart
2) Regime lack of bad aspects though maybe an each way bet
3) Soldier of Fortune just because I have developed a soft spot for it ( very dangerous thing to do in my, admittedly limited, experience)

If you can get good odds then maybe Authorized or, and I prefer, Salford Mill in case those moons are well placed to the race MC.

And Id bet against Archipenko if the odds are good at the start of the race.
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Deb
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very informative - thanks Amelia.
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Ficina
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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Location: Kent, England

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job, Amelia Thumbs up
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amelia is on the right track there.

Best way to win on the horses (I've been doing it for a bit) is to just go by the horse natal. Just like it was a person like you and me.

Every man and his dog will be betting on Authorised, which will start the race at odds on, most likely about 1/2 (2 pounds on, 1 pound returned)

A bit of background history for you. Frankie Dettori the main focus here.
The Derby is the only horse race that he hasn't won. While he's contracted to ride for Godolphin stables (Saeed Bin Suroor's) horses, Saeed has allowed him to ride Authorised just this once, for him to stand the best chance of winning, as it is the best horse. Nice bit of sportsmanship.

If Saeed and Dettori are OK with riding Authorised, it's good enough for me, even without looking at the natals. So there's a big clue of who to back.

While the horse natal needs rectifying, still some good transits to look at including Sun trine Neptune. Great if it's Pisces rising.

Frankie Dettori (15 Dec 1970 - Milan, Italy) has a Mercury trine Mars aspect exact on the day. Should he be Aries rising, he'll have nailed it.


Goca led me to this site
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Ficina
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Location: Kent, England

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum, Coffee Smile

Interesting post. It's often the jockey's transits that turn out to be more significant than the horses themselves in these big races. I'd also looked at Frankie's chart since he's on the favourite. He was born at 10.30am CET which gives him Aquarius rising but Scorpio on MC.
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that info, where did ya get it?
I knew we looked similar. Although he's not as good looking as me. Lala Happy

The full moon in Sag is in his 10th house of honours, looks pretty ideal for him getting the record. Also a sextile to 1st ruler Uranus, with Cancer on his 6th. Very Happy

Thumbs up
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Ficina
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Location: Kent, England

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must be really good looking then Cool

It's from his birth certificate. I originally got the info from the AA's Transit magazine way back in 2000 when he was involved in that plane crash outside Newmarket from which he escaped with just a broken ankle.
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Ficina
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Posts: 1807
Location: Kent, England

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derby withdrawals:

Chinese Whisper
Jalil
Mythical Kid

Non-runners:

Arabian Gulf
Eastern Anthem
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Deb
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Location: England

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to go and put my bet on Admiralofthefleet. It will be a good reason for me to analyse this after the event (when I'm wrong) and it's no fun for me to pick the favourite Smile

Good luck to anyone else betting today!
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive gone Authorised to win.

EW on Aqaleem, Lucarno and Admiral of the Fleet.

Admiral of the fleet looks good. Think its Moon is pretty much same as Authorised, early Sag.

Best of luck Thumbs up
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last minute research: scrap the other lot and go for a nice win on Strategic Prince.

STRATEGIC PRINCE TO WIN Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up

Priced at 38.00 on Betfair Thumbs up
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Coffee"]Last minute research: scrap the other lot and go for a nice win on Strategic Prince.

STRATEGIC PRINCE TO WIN Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up

Priced at 38.00 on Betfair Thumbs up[/quote]

Nope, foget what I put there Laughing
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Deb
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Location: England

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
STRATEGIC PRINCE TO WIN

Priced at 38.00 on Betfair

Nope, foget what I put there


Laughing I think you did that just in time didn't you?

Of course - Authorised. It all seems so obvious now doesn't it? 1st ruler smack on the cusp of the 10th house of authority.

I didn't actually see the race, I went from the bookies down to the shops and lost track of timing spending the anticipated winnings.

Post mortem tomorrow - tonight I have to put the new outfit to use.
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