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Epsom Derby, 2007
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Deb
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Location: England

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Epsom Derby, 2007 Reply with quote

For those interested, here's the chart for the Epsom Derby on June 2nd. (Time from the BBC site)

Venus has to be descriptive of the winner don't you think?

Does anyone know when we get information on jockey's colours? (Don't know much about horse-racing but I'll keep some of my dumb questions - like can male and female horses race? - for my husband)

The planetary hour, ruler BTW, is Jupiter

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Ficina
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Location: Kent, England

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the card

http://www.racingpost.co.uk/horses/card.sd?race_id=395855&r_date=&card_choice=colour
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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Location: Srbija

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb, according to this article on your site:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/rev_da.html
we have to find name in connection with Lib.
I can not find names of horses on that site which Ficina recomend, so I ask Ficina to tell us the names of horses which will be race on 2nd June.
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 400
Location: Wales

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here they are:

Acapulco 28
Admiralofthefleet 22
Anton Chekhov 25
Aqaleem 21
Arabian Gulf 23
Archipenko 20
Authorized 16
Chinese Whisper 24
Eagle Mountain 28
Eastern Anthem 28
Jalil 15
Kid Mambo 21
Leander 27
Lucarno 26
Mahler 27
Mythical Kid 21
Petara Bay 35
Regime 35
Salford Mill 28
Soldier Of Fortune 23
Strategic Prince 28
Yellowstone 20
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Ficina
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can not find names of horses on that site which Ficina recomend

Sorry about that, Goca and everyone. Thanks, Amelia, for listing the names. For anyone who wants to see the colours and get the horses' DOBs you will have to register at the site. It's easy to do and doesn't cost anything Smile

www.racingpost.co.uk

Cheers,
Ficina
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Goca



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Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Amelia and Ficina. I went on that site and found all colours except for Archipenko, Anton Chekhov and Mahler. If you know, please post.
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Deb
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I registered – very useful Ficina, thanks!

I’ve been previewing some of the material in Ben Dyke’s new translation of Bonatti (it’s just great, but I’ll say more on that later).

Bonatti has a chapter on how to tell which horse will win a race. In a nutshell he recommends judging by the Lord of the hour, but only if it is in the 1st, 10th or 11th house.

If not, we should look for another planet in those houses (in that order of preference) – hence Venus here fits the bill according to Bonatti.

“You will be able to see by this which animal would win, and his colour and age and his goodness and fame”. … “Whence know that the winner will be known by the colour of the animal”.

You consider that planet’s dignity:

Own sign = noble and renowned (a favourite)
Exaltation = the most famous and renowned, having made many wins (‘the’ favourite)
Own triplicity = good form but not so well known
Own term = not so well known
Own face = hardly known

If there is no dignity, it is unknown – he says “like a farm animal” but maybe we can compare this with horses like the one that Liz Taylor rode in National Velvet Smile

If it is in fall or detriment there is a defect or an injury – most serious and known about if in detriment; in fall the injury might not be known about.

But this describes the winner, so regardless of how poor the odds, it is expected to win.

To judge the age of the horse, we consider orientality/occidentality and its relationship to the Sun. My astro-software is playing up so I haven’t been able to check this yet, but from what I understand there is a narrow age limit of horses in this race anyway (and yes, male and female horses can enter – apparently it wasn’t a dumb question though).

To judge the owner (oh, and I was told last night that race colours belong to the owner, not the jockey), you judge by the planet that rules the ascendant. Here it is Venus again so could signify a woman.

I am really just playing here and don’t expect to win but this seems like a bit of fun for a race my husband will be betting on anyway. Ideally I’m looking for a female horse owned by a woman, that is decent but not very well known (Venus in own terms), so it probably won’t have high odds, whilst toying with the symbolism of Venus in Cancer and seeing how that relates to names and colours.

All that will wait until another day, without knowing too much about them, Regime and Lucarno look interesting (palish colours, female horses). But then Aqualeem relates nicely to the Cancer-on-the-MC theme, as does ‘Admiralofthefleet’, with a touch of Saturn, almuten of Ascendant in Leo and 10th.
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Goca



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Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb, thanks for this post, I will print it and learn.
I look at names and chart. We have Ve on cusp 10th house, accidently dignified. My vote here goes to horse named "Eastern Anthem". Ve is general in connection with musuc, and Anthem is in conection with own country, key word for Can sign in which Ve is. (The sport kit is blue, of course).
PS.I do this for the first time, so if you bet do not listen to me. This is just my thoughts...
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Deb
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought about that, you might be right, but I can’t see the ‘eastern’ connection. I haven't made my decision yet but I’m leaning a bit more towards Admiralofthefleet because of Moon in Capricorn opp Mercury in Cancer in the 9th. The logic is a bit playful and creative, but Saturn is a superior planet, so this name keeps pulling my attention. Same here with the betting comment Smile

BTW, Amelia - what are the numbers after the names you listed?
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Goca



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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb!
Your selection Admiralofthefleet is fantastic regarding colours.(blue, Ve and silver and orange Can) More important is that orange sircle because Ve represent devious design. I must admit your selection regarding colours is better that mine.
But, Frawley said that in sport contest accidental dignities is much more important than essential, so on that side I'll go to Ve, not Sa, because Ve is on cusp of 10th house and Sa is in 10th house but in different sign, so i think accidentaly Sa is less power than Ve.

I must admit too, I have no explanation for "eastern" in name of "my" horse.

As you said this is very interesting.
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Last edited by Goca on Thu May 24, 2007 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Goca



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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
BTW, Amelia - what are the numbers after the names you listed?


I am interested in this too. Can anyone help?
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Ficina
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number of days since the horse last raced.

Deb, there are no female horses (fillies) in the race Sad
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Goca



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Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Ficina. Why that is so important?
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Deb
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ficina. She’s correcting me Goca because I said there were, (I was looking for female horses because of Venus on MC).

Ficina, on that link you gave, if you click the link for Lucarno it says

“first foal; dam a 6f winner at 2, later 5.5f stakes winner in US at 5, half-sister to smart French juvenile On A Cloud, and Totally Comic, a smart middle distance performer in France at 3”

But now I’ve checked again and it says of some horses: “half-sister to…half-brother to …”. So obviously it’s not meaning what I thought it did.

I think I’ll give up on trying to be informed.

On the other hand, if anyone does study form, etc., I wonder if there is more to be gleaned from the chart. For example some horses are said to run better when the going is soft, so I suppose someone who seriously has time to study this could throw in some weather prediction to look at that.
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Ficina
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,
Quote:
I think I’ll give up on trying to be informed

Laughing Well, before you do.....
Quote:
first foal; dam a 6f winner at 2.....

First foal refers to Lucarno, yes, but dam refers to its mother so the rest of that para is about the mother. So anywhere else where it says something liike "half-sister", again it refers to mum.

To check the gender of the horse, look underneath its name and it will have something like "b c" which means bay colt (male horse). Most of them are bay which is light brownish.

The only female owner I could find was Sue Magnier, who co-owns some of the horses with a couple of chaps.

Hi Goca,
If you were referring to the importance of the numbers, well, I don't know why Amelia listed them. I suppose you could check transits for when a horse won previously, but that's a lot of hard work!
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