My friend has been on the phone. She's worried about a (drunken) one-night stand she had at the weekend. She can't remember if they used protection. So she asked, Am I/will I get pregnant as a result? I'm not 100% sure what the verdict should be, so here goes:

8th May, Carlisle UK, 2:27am.

A very early degree of Aquarius rises - I seem to get under 1 deg. on alabe.com. However I do not see this as rendering the question void as the question was asked very soon after the event. Also, Saturn would still be L1 if the ASC were Capricorn

L5 (the baby) is Mercury in Taurus, coming out of combustion. (L7 is the Sun. Literal symbolism - the baby-making stuff coming out of the partner?!?!)

The Moon is at 21 Capricorn, applying immediately to square L5. Is this enough testimony to say "Yes"? There is one-way positive reception as L5 exalts the Moon. However, the Moon is in detriment. Does this mean she is not as powerful, and therefore unable to carry out the promise of the aspect?

In the 5th house is Venus at 29 Gemini. She is L3/8. As L8, does she deny the life of the baby? And I'm not sure what her imminent transit into Cancer could show. Going from a barren sign to a fertile one could show pregnancy.

Looking at L1, Saturn in Leo, I see a barren planet in a barren sign! But, as has been discussed in a previous thread, there is a difference between "am I" versus "will I ever". L1 is in a separating square (4 degrees) to L5, with no mutual reception. No aspect to the Moon. Although they make a separating square, the lack of major positive reception between L1/L5 seems to indicate NO.

So, my verdict is a tentative NO. I'm just not seeing masses of fertility here, and I'm not convinced by the trine made by the detrimented Moon to L5. Especially as L1 and the Moon are in non-beholding signs. But that Venus is a little suspicious...

Anyone's thoughts would be most welcome.

Keren

Hi Kerenhappuch,

I'm assuming that Gemini is the ruler of the 5th house; in which case I would say the answer is definitely a 'no'. Gemini is not a fertile sign; neither is Capricorn, nor Leo. I would see the square from the moon as a *definite* no. Mercury is coming out of combustion, but it *is* still combust or at least Under the Beams, even if separating.

Cheers,
GH

Oops, I lied, sorry! The Moon in Capricorn applies to trine Mercury in Taurus (L5).

You're right Gunhilde, I felt the same. There just aren't enough classical significations of fertility for this to be a "Yes".

Cheers for your comment

K

With under a 1 degree ascendant I think the universe is telling you that nobody knows enough about the situation yet. Try asking again later.

I'm one of those people who takes the considerations before judgement seriously. If Lily took the care to write them, we should take the care to follow them dont you think?

Generally I would agree, but the 'Considerations before judgment' are just that, considerations. They aren't hard and fast rules, and I don't think anyone who has read Lilly would say that Lilly consistently followed his own teachings!

If a chart is valid, it will still read clearly, whether there is an early or late ascendant. That is only one factor to consider.

Best,
GH

I think the miniscule ASC fits perfectly! She texted me the question literally half an hour after the event! And conception can occur up to four days after intercourse, as sperm can live for that length of time in the womb (apparently!)... So I think this chart is still valid, as the very early ASC describes the situation.

Of course, SaturnReturn, in one sense, yes, you're right, of course no-one knows enough about the situation yet. Even if she does get pregnant, it wouldn't be until at least a few hours after the event, and of course she wouldn't get a positive pregnancy test until two weeks afterwards, minimum. But isn't this the point of horary? To tap into the universe and seek knowledge which is behind the veil, so to speak?

I agree with Gunhilde - considerations before judgement are just that, considerations, not laws set in stone. Just points that are important to notice and take into account, as we have here.

And conception can occur up to four days after intercourse, as sperm can live for that length of time in the womb (apparently!)...

Ha! This was what I was thinking when I saw the early ascendant. The little spermies are probably still swimming so there is no definite conclusion yet. The matter is premature, so even the universe doesnt know if she is pregnant yet, so beware about a no answer this early in the game. The horary seems to say "no, you aren't pregnant", but it is still too early(judged by the asc) to tell. So your friend could be pregnant in a couple days when the little guys have had a chance to do their work.

I think the considerations are important, and in this case you should consider that this horary may give you a premature answer, which is probably the case.

Again, we should consider that the horary is saying, "Too early to tell for sure, but at this moment, no."

I'd ask again in a few days to make sure. Or buy a pregnacy test.

Lol! Yes, good point. I don't know though, I would still like to think that the answer is there in the chart, even if the (possible) actual conception is some time off in the future.. Hmm.

It's interesting to look at the aspects: L5 has aspected L1 and L7. (The sperm are in the building!) Then the Moon comes along to trine L5, picking up the light of L5 and showing the movement of the sperm (?!). If the Moon translated the light of L5 to L1, remaking the contact, this would (I think) be clear symbolism of the sperm "taking root". But it doesn't - Moon and L1 are in non-beholding signs. So this sequence of aspects could symbolise a pregnancy which did not "take"...??

In the 5th house is Venus at 29 Gemini.

Venus is actually in the 6th house using the 5 degree orb. About to get more fertile yes but not there yet and in the house of ill health. Venus disposes of L.5, which could show an increase in fertility in the future but the question is "is she pregnant now?"

It's an interesting chart. Lots of barren signs as has been noted which argue against pregnancy, but then what to make of the moon applying to trine L.5? Does your friend have a secret (12th house) wish to be pregnant in her heart of hearts (moon)?

Tara

Interesting you say that Tara, about the secret desire to be pregnant. That thought popped into my head before I read your sentance because of the trine from the moon to L5. L5 is representative of the "lovemaking" and it is an easy aspect to the general significator the the querant, not a square or an opp.

Maybe this signifies that she felt good about the whole experience, pregnancy or not. If it had been a square to L5 it would have shown some discord between the querant and the situation, but the trine makes it easy. So, yeah I thought she might actually want to be pregnant, or at least she would accept it.

Tara, an interesting point about the Moon in 12th/L5 trine. It adds a further, subtle shade of interpretation to the chart.

Certainly the careless "forgetting" protection, or even getting into that situation in the first place, might hint at a subsconscious desire for pregnancy, yes. Being young and not in a stable relationship, she certainly doesn't consciously want a baby now, however!

SaturnReturn, it's interesting to interpret the trine in that way. Perhaps even though her logical thinking being (Saturn, L1), disliked the experience (square to L5), emotionally it was enjoyable (Moon trine L5). Although the Moon being in detriment would indicate a certain level of emotional unhappiness - which fits with her seeming carelessness for her body.

Tara, I wouldn't put Venus in the 6th house, as Cancer is on the cusp whereas Venus is still in Gemini. Thinking more about your comments on the Moon, can you see what this Venus might show? Perhaps just another indication of subconscious desire for a baby, which is not forthcoming due to the barren sign?

Altogether an interesting chart with more symbolism than I first thought. Thanks all for your comments!

I wouldn't put Venus in the 6th house, as Cancer is on the cusp whereas Venus is still in Gemini.

Really? I was never taught (by Deb) to disregard the 5 degree orb rule if the planet was in the earlier sign. Where do you get that from, Keren?

As for what the Venus means ... if indeed in the 5th, Venus here would reinforce the notion that she rather enjoyed the experience. If in the 6th ... yikes ... not an STD I hope?

Tara