I do not want to marry him--A hate horary

1
The time I was thinking that horary is easy I got a really tough question.

QUERY / BACK GROUND AND THE ISSUES OF SIGNIFICATORS I HAVE TRIED MY BEST TO RESOLVE

A [i}Girl[/i] has asked the question

My mother and me have shown now dissent to the family where I have been engaged (against my consent) some 5 months ago but my father is not willing to call it off. What is in store for me. Secondly how would be my future mate?

April 21st 2007, Peshawar (Pakistan) 04.37 p.m. +5 GMT

An Internet/cyber friend posed this question (I have never met her in real life).

She was engaged to a person (a relative) of questionable character last year. Her father was the one who forced the issue. Now she is requesting her father to call off the issue but he is reluctant/not willing to do so.

In our country and specifically from the area she belongs, the traditions have much stronger hold. A father can engage her daughter to any one and it is biding by tradition. It has not legal backing and nor it is Islamic. As father is not supposed to force his daughter against her consent. However, traditions prevail over sanity. It can be argued that the parents know what is best for their kids. But then parents decide the issue based on criteria that are not acceptable to the parties involved. I am always reminded that arranged marriage result in lesser divorce rate. But my point is that the women are not free in our society as they are portrayed. Since they are dependent and have no options they consider it best to compromise.

My problem in this query was to phrase the question so as to get some clarity. I told girl to phrase it clearly but the best she can do was the query, which I have posted above. As far as I can do the query can be broken into these parts.

-I do not want to marry to my relative (fianc?e) what would happen?
-Will my father agree?.
-How will be my future mate? (this question can be considered separate from the query as her future mate can be her fianc?e or any other person)

My second problem was which houses and significators to be looked for.

-Lord of the Ascendant---Venus--- Moon and Jupiter (last separating aspect of Moon) rules Querent
-Lord of 4th house and Sun rule father.
-Lord of 3rd house rules relatives.
-Lord of 7th house ---Mars---rules potential marriage or marriage partner.
-Lord of 11th house-Sun rules hopes and wishes.

Which house rules engagement?

Neither it is a binding verbal contract (7th house)
Nor it is a written contract (3rd house)

At best it is kind of rite ritual or tradition.


-So a 9th house issue or still 7th house issue? Or just simply a 3rd house (engagement to a relative/cousin).

When I face such kind of dilemma of assigning the house I do look at the luminaries and lord of ascendant.

-Sun is in 8th house (fears)
-Moon and Venus in 9th (higher studies or rites and rituals ---the Querent may have fears that if she marry she would not be able to complete her higher studies or may be she thinks that the family she marry into wold have alien surroundings)
Note: the girl has lived in a city and has moved freely however the family she marries into would restrict her freedom/movement and impose on her tribal traditions.

Following queries from Christian Astrology have some bearing.

If the Querent and his brother, Neighbour or sister shall agree (p.188---can be applied to if the Querent and father agree)

If a marriage shall be perfected or not ( p317-318)

If a man shall have the thing hoped for (p 458)



DATA (Regiomontanus/Tropical)

First House: Libra 04.11
Second House: Scorpio 0.00
Third House: Sagittarius 0.00
Fourth House: Capricorn 04.34
Fifth House: Aquarius 09.00
Sixth House: Pisces 08.00

Sun: Taurus 01.00 (8th House)
Moon: Gemini 26.33 (9th House)
Mercury: Aries 18.31 (7th House)
Venus: Gemini 10.55 (9th House)
Mars: Pisces 11.36 (6th House)
Jupiter: Sagittarius 19.24 Rx (3rd House)
Saturn: Leo 18.09 (11th House)
North Node: Pisces 15.06 (6th House)
Part of Fortune: Scorpio 29.24 (2nd House but it conjuncts 3rd house so I would classify it in 3rd house)
*Uranus: Pisces 17.10 (6th House)
*Neptune: Aquarius 21.44 (5th House)
*Pluto: Sagittarius 28.51 Rx (3rd House)

Moon aspects (within the moiety of its orbs):-

Separating

Moon Opposition Jupiter 07.09
Moon Sextile `Mercury 08.02
Moon Sextile Saturn 08.24

Applying

Moon sextile Sun 04.27

Venus Aspects (within the moiety of its orbs):-



I have listed transpersonal planets for the benefit of members but I have decided not to use them in my initial studies. Once I have mastered of what Lilly has to say then I would start using them but then only as fixed stars.

Note: Since these are my initial studies I will refrain from using fixed stars. I will use Regulus and few other mentioned by Lilly but that too after a certain period of time.


OBSERVATIONS

Venus is peregrine and is in 9th house.

Mars is not peregrine and is in 6th house.

Venus applies by Square aspect to Mars. Venus is receiving Mars in its Exaltation and in its Terms. Mars receives Venus in his face. Jupiter (Lord of 3rd and 6th) also happen to collect their lights.

Venus applies by sextile aspect to Saturn Lord of 4th house which is in 11th house. Venus receives Saturn in her Terms while Saturn receives Venus in his Triplicity.

Lord of Ascendant ---Venus---is in applying opposition to Lord of 3rd----Jupiter. Only Jupiter is giving reception to Venus in his terms.

Mars (Lord of 7th and 2nd) has not aspect with Saturn (Lord of 4th and 5th ). However, Jupiter (Lord of 3rd and 6th ) is collecting Lights of Mars and Saturn. Jupiter receives Saturn in his terms while he recieves Mars in his house and in his face)

Mercury (Lord of 9th and 12th) is in applying Trine aspect to Jupiter (retro). This is without reception.

Mercury (Lord of 9th and 12th) is separating Trine from Saturn (Lord of 4th and 5th).

South Node is in 12th house.


ANALYSIS

-Your father will agree with you and you would love him(Venus applies Sextile Saturn with mutual reception).

-But your father doesn’t see fault in the relatives. (Saturn aspects Jupiter---Lord of 3rd and also Lord of 3rd from 4th)

-Your secret enemies who wanted you to marry the guy have lost force and are not able to act now freely (Mercury –Lord of 9th and 12th is under the sun beams---South Node in 12th house—Mercury is separating from Saturn—Lord of 4th )

-Marriage to that guy seems difficult (Venus applies to Mars with square and with simple reception---Venus is in applying opposition to Jupiter Lord of 3rd).

-Your relative is most probably a lawyer but is not practicing and is well settled in his environment. May have some bad habits (Jupiter Retro)but is not that bad.

-Your hopes may be realized but with difficulty (Applying Sextile aspect between Sun—Lord of 11th and Sun---with mutual reception)

-Can not tell you now about your future mate ( I am tired)

QUESTIONS


-Which is the house of engagement (non-emotional)to a relative?
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/

2
Hi STJ,

I don't have time to read your entire post right now, but the house of marriage is the 10th. This shows marriage as an institution and legal contract: it shows the legal ties etc. Also being the top of the chart the 10th shows the formalisation of the relationship, which puts it into the public domain. I would suspect both parties applying to Lord 10 would indicate the marriage going ahead. Hope this helps.

Keren

3
Hi Karrenhappuch----

Thanks for the input.

However, you should have better read my whole post. My question relates to Engagements.

The scenario i gave would put marriage at 7th house. Admittedly 10th house is the house of honours and public position but neither the Querent nor the Quesited Marriage would have any impact or relation to the 10th house. Both are well settled in their environment and their marriage would be seen as the natural extension of the engagement (which had no effect on their status).
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/

4
I really think in this case the 7th is best utilized because you are talking about partnership and enemies and a person who is not well defined, etc. I would use 1 for querant, 4 for father, 7 for the fiancee, and look to the moving planets, moon, mercury, etc... for what the motions actually become.

Venus perfects that square with Mars today, which says Venus successfully ends the relationship as far as I can see. The Moon, Mother is on her daughters side here and is at the top of the chart and should prevail. Saturn, the father is in detriment in Leo, Moon about to oppose Pluto before changing signs. While pluto is mroe a generational planet, what you might see here is Mother successfully bucking tradition for her Daughters benefit.

I must say that with the way the young woman feels about the man, the square between venus and mars is a perfect description as well.

Also Moon about to sextile sun, Moon uses her own wealth and friends to prevent the wedding from happening? looks ot me mother has strongest influence here and is heading from her seat of power rather quickly. I think Mercury here is who the daughter is really interested in and will be key in preventing that marriage and making it his own, note that with in a week Mercury and Venus will be in mutual reception. look at 28 April, Venus and father now sextile in agreement and Mercury closing in!

And whoever the Sun actually represents in the chart really does not agree with the father. and does have Tradition, Pluto on their side, so whoever this other suitor is, and I'm pretty sure there is one, Venus too firmly interested in mercury. I think the young woman will prevail, but I am an optimist by nature.

Granny

5
Hi Granny!---- :'

Thanks for the insights.

The Girl told me few things when i delivered my judgements.

Her father is a Sun Sign Leo. I checked his data and found out that he had Solar Eclipse right on his ascendant last year.

The father is not doing well in his business. (though he is still very well off).

She came to know that she has been engaged (i checked the data) when Saturn turned retrograde last year in december.

The Girl was interested in a guy but she broke the relationship last year because he was aggressive/abusive and manipulative.

Mercury rules 12th house (so may be secret enemies/back biters?)


The father (according to her opinion) is dominated by his sisters who are using black/white magic so that he could not see faults in the guy.

The guy happens to be son of one of that sister.

I used 3rd and 7th house of the figure to describe and read about Engagement to a relative. I have searched all the traditonal astrology books i have (which are few) and have gone through astrological geomancy books. I havent found reference to Engagement.

So, my take would be this (the time i dont find proper reference)

--Engagement to a person with proper description and relationship (Ascendant and that particular house which describes the relation---On the lines of Query of William Lilly---whether My brother and i would agree )

---Normal Engagements with no relation (Ascendant and 7th house)

---Much publicised Engagements--which improve status---secretary /boss :lol: --talk of the town (Ascendant and 10th house)


I am still open to suggestions.

Congratulations (on the arrival of Cancer Asc) And thanks :)
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/

6
ah first cousins can marry in Pakistan?

how about start mentiioning the high number of birthdefects of intermarrying, that might help!

wonder if he owes the sister money... ???

some thoughts for them, still think Mother may prevail!

thanks for the congrats!

granny

7
Hi Granny!--

Yes, first cousins can marry in Pakistan. Some families prefer it, however families living in cities are now a days prefering marriages outside their blood relations cause of medical reasons.

Privacy is not a recognized concept in Pakistan. People love to poke their nose in other private affairs. Even a stranger would like to know how much i earn and about the exact details of my siblings. It is irritating, but if one doesnt comply, one is considered prude. The idea of non-privacy comes out of agrarian culture. Where elders of a village, consider it their right to know each and every thing. It is said that two people dont marry but their families marry-and keeping in view privacy issues-people feel comfortable with the set of people with whom they are already familiar. So marriages with first or second cousins.

-----------

Update-----


The engagement of the Querent has been broken on 28th of April so, you were right regarding timing of event :'
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/