Hi,

I have asked a question involving my partner. We have been living seperately for the past few months, though "working" on our relationship and still intimate. I recently learned that he is "dating" another woman, and I cast a chart with the question, "What is the status of their relationship?" (I want to know how serious it really is, what her feelings for him are, etc.)

So here is my conundrum. I am the querent. So I am the ASC. He is my partner. But she is also his partner, which brings her back to the ASC. I have always used the ruler of the 7th in all romantic questions, not the 5th.

Any thoughts? Do I resort to a secondary significator such as Venus, for here?

Thanks!

Hello,

If the relationship does not involve common life, than it is the 5th house, not the 7th. When they live together, it is a 7th house matter.

Hi florenced,

I think you need to be more clear on the phrasing of your question. The real question here is not, "How does he feel for her?" but "How does he feel for me and is our relationship going to work out?"

So we look to Lord 1, the Moon and Venus (unless these are already taken as Lord 7) to show you, and Lord 7 and the Sun (unless he's already taken as Lord 1). Then we can work out who this other woman is by the receptions. She might be shown by Venus, as natural significator of women. Or Saturn, as the one spoiling your fun. Look at the receptions to establish a likely candidate.

Hope this makes sense. Perhaps you could post the chart data so we can work out how this other woman is shown in the chart?

Keren

Thanks so much for the feedback.

I do not consider the ruler of the 5th to be love affairs.

kerrenhappuch, thanks for your feedback. And of course you are right about the phrasing of the question, I am more concerned about "me."

So with that in mind, I rephrased the question and asked again. The data is:

28 March 2007
3:52:46 PM
NYC, USA.

I asked "will he continue to provide for me?" (or aggree to a financial settlement)

Bit of background, we have been living together for over 9 years. All of our finances were joint, he made significantly more $$ than I--and in the last year, I became very ill and could not work (I am recovering well now). He is extremely parsimonious (mixed with bouts of generosity and largess) about $$ (one of the main issues in our relationship is how he used it for control). Since we are not legally married, I cannot take him to court for my share of our assets (he always referred to $$ as our $$ the entire time. My money, when I earned it, went mainly into household expenses. He did the 'saving." His IRA was "our" IRA etc [dumb, I know, but until recently, I never doubted him).

He does not know that I know about this woman, and frankly, the reason I have not broached it is because I want to avoid a "scene" in which he will simply cut me off financially, as he has threatened on more than one occaision, even though at others, he has said that he will look out for me financially until we either reconcile or I get back on my feet financially (I am in our home) So, I am wondeing about the other woman in terms of trying to figure out what his "real" intentions are.

**************************************

So this chart seems quite radical.

ASC 28 Leo (late degrees--but on Regulus)

I am the Sun at 7 Aries in the 8th (exalted, and appropriately in the 8th)
& the Moon at almost 14 Leo in the 12th. (Weak house and no dignity)

The Moon is separating by square from a dignified Venus in the 9th.

He is Saturn at 18 Leo 35 Rx in the 12th. (in detriment, and in weak house, and rx)


"his" Money is ruled by Jupiter, ruler of the 8th. It is in the 4th in Sag.

The most interesting reception is the fact that he is shown by Saturn, in detriment my (the Sun's) domain. He doesn't like being with me? But there is a conj about to occur. After Saturn conjoins the Moon, it moves to Venus, from which the Moon has recently seperated. I am not sure how to interpret that...if at all.

After the Moon passes Saturn, it trines a very strong Jupiter.

There are no aspects made to the Sun w/significators.

There is a minor reception between the Moon and Jupiter by face.

I am very interested in the debilitated Me in the 7th. It could be a significator of my money (ruler of the 2nd, and he has it) Or it could be indicative of his duplicity--I suspect not only with me, but her as well (I don't think she knows about me, or if she does, the "truth" about our relationship). It applies by sextile to Venus in the 9th.

So, any thoughts would be appreciated!!!

I always use the 7th for relationships, no matter how fleeting or casual they may be. 7th is the person, 5th is the activity.


florenced, in your above post you say you asked the question again. Do you mean you have made a new chart? My personal view is that the first chart can still be used as we are still asking about the relationship. The only thing that has changed is that you have rephrased the question to better reflect what you really wanted to know in the first place. Can we see the data for the first chart? I suspect both will be radical, but that the first will perhaps be clearer.

So the real question is "Will he continue to provide for me financially?" I think the important things to look for are indications of fixity and longevity - i.e. is the situation about to change or is it going to stay pretty much the same? So a VOC Moon, for example, would be a positive testimony in this case as it would indicate things will stay pretty much the same. Of course, we would really like to see your significator moving into greater dignity, to show you "getting back on your feet". Please post the data for the first chart?

Thanks so much Kerren, for your thoughts.

As I said, I agree about the ruler of the 7th in terms of all affairs, which is the reason for my original confusion.

I thought about your 1st reply, and I thought that I was not clear in my own mind when I asked the 1st question. Which is why after some mulling, I came up with a clearer question. I know that when I work with other people's questions (generally over the phone), I wait until they have formulated the question clearly, before I take the time with which to cast the chart (w/rgd to relationship questions, people are often vague at 1st!)

The first chart is:

27 March 2007
6:45 PM
NYC

In this chart, I am Venus and the Moon. He is Mars. I didn't ask about money in this chart, but the ruler of the 8th is also Mars. In this chart, since I am not signified by it, he is also the Sun, which is angular on the 7th. Sun is disposed by Mars, himself, which fits--he has been very much concerned with "himself" (He is a Sun-Moon-Venus Aries by birth, ha!).

So, this is the interesting thing, in both of these charts, Mars in not applying to anything, but is just separating from Saturn rx. Venus, me, is also in the 8th, though well dignified. Moon is applying to Venus, by square. Then to the Moon applies by trine to the Sun. As I said, nothing going on with Mars.

The essential dignities in both charts are the same. I think the story of he and I is better described by the 2nd.

The interesting thing with Mars, in terms of receptions, it is ruled by Saturn by both rulership and triplicity. Saturn rx in Libra (in the 11th) would be the only real candidate for her.

In the second chart, Mars is applying to the 7th house cusp, and again, seems very interested in Saturn, due to the essential dignities; it is also the ruler of the Sun, which is me--I see her as a threat (though I feel bad for her, because he is lying to her as well as me, I believe).

At any rate, I feel the 2nd chart is much more radical in terms of it describing the way I am experiencing the situation. I am the Sun in Aries in the 8th, as well as the conj between the Moon and Saturn (him) in the 12th--the secrets etc.

To end, I am thinking that in the 1st chart, she is shown by Saturn, and the 2nd by Mars. I would be grateful for your thoughts on this!

So here is my conundrum. I am the querent. So I am the ASC. He is my partner. But she is also his partner, which brings her back to the ASC. I have always used the ruler of the 7th in all romantic questions, not the 5th.

The 7th is the correct house for your partner. It is a relationship, he is the quesited. The 5th is what you do with the partner, whether that is dating, romantic walks in the park, raucus parties at the pub, or anything else that is fun.

His "other" will be shown by receptions. Perhaps there is a mutual reception between his planet and another. The other is likely the "other" woman. Another possibility is the dispositor of his significator. A tight aspect is a third possibility. A planet in his house, other than yours, is a fourth possibility. You have to let the chart tell you.

Tom

I'm looking at the first chart and see 1 Libra rising. Is this what you got? I assume by "NYC" you mean New York, New York (I'm from England). 1 Libra is a very early degree and makes me think this situation isn't "ripe" yet. But let's try to read it anyway.

Lord 1 is Venus in Taurus in the 8th, which fits with your concern over his finances. Interesting to see your significator here, in her own sign. Lots of essential dignity shows you are strong in yourself. Also in the detriment of Mars - you as a thinking being hate him. I'm using simplistic language here, don't take it too literally! After all, he has hurt you, so it makes sense to see your significator in negative reception with him.

Lord 7 is Mars in Aquarius. He is peregrine - lacking essential dignity. Peregrine literally means "wandering", which describes his changeable and wandering behaviour at the moment. He also gets the Sun, which is strong inside the 7th cusp and shows he is "strutting his man-stuff" at the moment - that is, interested in his own sexuality. However, he as a thinking being is perhaps not totally comfortable with this, as Lord 7 is in detriment of the Sun. So perhaps he is following his primal instincts in dating this other woman, but he is not 100% comfortable.

You proposed Saturn as the other woman. I think this does fit. Lord 7 is ruled by Saturn, and Saturn is ruled by the Sun, i.e. she fancies him.

The other interesting thing with the Sun is that it is in negative reception of both your and the other woman's significators. This fits very strongly with your statement that he is interested in himself!

The Moon is your other significator, and is also in Leo, showing you are still attracted to him despite it all, and also that you hate the other woman (Moon in detriment of Saturn).

So how is the situation going to change? Lord 1, the Moon and Lord 7 are in fixed signs, showing the situation will continue as it is for some time. However, Lord 7 will eventually move into Pisces, where he will exalt Venus. This may show him coming back to his feelings for you.

The Moon applies to trine the Sun and square Venus - translating the light of his "man-stuff" significator to Lord 1. However, the Sun in Aries is in the detriment of Venus, showing that if this aspect shows a meeting, it will probably be acrimonious as the Sun dislikes Venus. The Moon then goes to conjunct Saturn - this could show you meeting the other woman. Again, it could be a difficult meeting as the receptions are negative.

In terms of answering the financial question, I think he will continue to help you. At the moment he seems not to know what he wants, (Lord 7 is peregrine). I think he's having a "mid-life crisis" where he feels the need to express his sexuality (Sun strong in 7th). However I think he will come around to you (if you want him back!) as shown by Mars' passage into Pisces. I think the message here is just hang on and try not to rock the boat, and you both will eventually reconcile - although you need to figure out if this is what you really want.

I hope my post is clear so you can see how I arrived at this conclusion

Are you happy with this chart? I don't think we need to look at the second, as this chart seems clear enough despite the early Asc.

Keren

Thank you so much Keren!!!!

Yes, NYC is New York, New York!

You have read the chart much as I did, once I began to hone in on figuring out the reception in terms of a significator. Though you have added some additional insight which is quite valuable. I am happy with this first chart, though I have to say that the 2nd chart seems to affirm everything you have illuminated in the first. Though it shows a little more clearly that he will not bail on me financially.

And the situation is as you describe it, he is and has been strutting his man-stuff for some time (he is a sun/moon/venus Aries natally and has Mars at 26 Sag--Pluto has been a potent transit in this respect! His anger and resentment has been really out of control for the past couple of years.) And you are right, as a thinking being, I do "hate" him for this. It is also true that he is "wandering" (I know him well enough to see that) in his own mind and is not at all comfortable with his behavior. But he is being extremely willful.

I am particularly struck that you think there may be a meeting between me and the other woman. I can't really imagine how that will happen since she and I have not ever laid eyes on her and he has no idea that I know about her (I won't go into the details of how I learned about it!) so I am wondering if the Moon - Saturn conjunction shows that he will decide to tell me (I am hoping at this point that he won't) and I will "meet" her in that sense. Unless she for some odd reason tries to seek me out, but again that is hard for me to imagine.

And he does "dislike" me at this point (though I know he loves me), but that his "man-stuff" thinking. It's really a classic case of projection, he is refusing to look at his own stuff (major unowned anger issues), and when I react in a less than "perfect" way to his bad behavior (being human and all that!), then it affirms his notion that the faults and the problems are all mine (this has been going on for some time). She is a new person in his life; even though he barely knows her, though they have been going great guns for each other in a very short amount of time--so it is very easy to idealize her and demonize me--classic "split" stuff. She is stroking his ego big time (Sun in Aries in the 7th--disposing Saturn!). I know this for a fact.

So, my task is to take it slow, do my Venus in Taurus self-care, and be very careful not to rock the boat anymore than I can help, and give him time to sort himself out and then see if there is anything left to salvage (drat those fixed signs!). I am thinking that if I sit back and let things take their course, he will inevitably bump up against his own internal issues with her--as always inevitably occurs--and then we shall see if he is capable of doing what he needs to do to salvage our relationship. Obviously the chart is saying that there is nothing I can do in that regard, the ball is in his court so to speak (Sun in 7th).

Thanks again for your insight...this is very comforting, which is what horary is, when it is at it's best!

I'm glad you've found this reassuring. And that my posts have been helpful. Everything you've said makes perfect sense in the context of this chart. It's very satisfying to read a chart which is so clear, despite the early Asc. I feel triumphant - we fought the chart and won! Would you mind if I saved this chart as an example? It's just so clear. Makes me enthusiastic about horary all over again!

Your posts have indeed been extremely helpful and by all means, feel free to use the chart! That is one reason for posting on this forum, so that we can all learn.

I will post an update when things "play out" -- but one thing I can say is that I have it on "good authority" that things are already getting a little mucky with the two of them (Mars--his sig-- in a seperating opposition to her, SA rx).

Well, everything happened just as you said it would Keren!

While we did not meet, face to face, she did become aware that all ties between my partner and I were not severed. It did indeed become very acrimonious between them (Mars-Saturn opp). She really played out the Saturn in Leo role, to a "t"!

He is indeed "exalting" me now, wants to work things out (has actually agreed to go for counseling, a huge shift).

So we are talking, considering. No decisions. But things are cleaner and healthier.

Money issues are basically resolved between us for now as well.