Given that the 6th house represents both sickness and pets, what house do you use to signify a sick pet? Is the 6th in that case your pet or his illness?

well actually I use the 6th for the pet and 6 from 6th for his illness. so 6 and 11 for his health.

(edit) because 6th would be my health, not pets? yes?

granny

Something Id like to mention before anyone dives into this topic, some authors dont consider "pets" ruled by the 6th House. Its true that small animals are ruled by the 6th House but there is no aspect between the 6th House and Ascendant which means theres is no connection between the person (Ascendant) and small animals (6th House) (which are also called "small cattle" ie goats, sheep & etc.). This same concept also applies to another 6th House significator, servants. You dont have a personal connection with servants. Just something I thought I would mention before this question is analyzed.

Thanks Granny ... I thought of turning the chart of course but then I got myself all confused which often happens when you're as upset about something as I am about my sick cat.

What house would rule pets if not the 6th, Aaron? The 5th? That does make sense as we love our pets much the same way we love our children. It also fits what's happening to my cat as Neptune is conjunct Mars in the turned 6th from the 5th and his condition (which includes fever) is defying diagnosis so far.

What house would rule pets if not the 6th, Aaron? The 5th?

Good question, traditionally speaking there is none that I have heard or read. The 5th House may work, as most people view their pets as children and as you have said, treat them as such. They are also a form of entertainment. Its interesting and strange that there is quite a lot of mention of the Dog star and its effects, and all through history dogs and cats have been seen as pets yet Ive seen no traditional source stating the House they are slotted into.

So do they belong in the 5th House? I dont really know. You may want to open this topic up on the Traditional or General forum here and see if you get any responses.

I?ve tended to use the 6th in the past with good results, but I am getting more and more reluctant to continue this. As Aaron says, the 6th house attribution was originally based upon there being no loving relationship with the animal, and it was intended for straying sheep or cattle. Lilly gives an example chart of a lost dog in his 6th house section, but he does this because he lived in the city, had no examples of missing cattle charts, so he suggested that a dog is a similar sort of creature.

Why not judge the question straight from the 1st house as you would a decumbiture chart for a person that was ill? When my dog was unwell, I looked at the radical chart and the turned chart ? it was hard to tell which worked best because I got the same answer whichever approach I took. Sadly, she died a couple of days later. It was hard to look at the chart at the time, but it was reassuring afterwards because it helped me to realise that there really wasn?t anything more I could have done.

There tends to be only two situations when we ask about pets in horary ? either when they are sick, or when they?ve gone missing. In the first I think it is reasonable to use the ascendant for the ?sick patient? as we do in decumbiture, but for the second I have found it works best to keep the animal signified by the 6th, because some of my charts have been very descriptive in showing when it is found by the application of the 1st and 6th house rulers.

Thanks, Deb. I thought of taking the ASC as my cat because I have such a strong personal interest in his well-being and, interestingly, if I take the 5th, I get Mercury as his significator either way, in detriment which makes sense as he's ill, and in the terms of Venus which also makes sense as he is a beautiful cat.

That frees the 6th up to be his health ... ruled by Mars conjunct Neptune opposed Saturn and sextile Jupiter in 7th all four planets on the angles. Don't like those malefics on angles ... Mars separating from Saturn by 2 degrees and he had fallen ill 2 days before I asked the question.

The data for the question "Should I take the cat to the vet?" is March 25, 10:40 am EDT, Toronto.

I wonder if the vet will decide he has to operate given that Mars is in the 10th?

Hi everyone
Lilly gives Saturn as significator to both cats and dogs...CA p 60
Useful to know?
Janet

I wonder if that was because both were likely to be riddled with fleas in his day? I?m quite used to seeing Mars used as the natural significator for dogs in other texts. I just checked Albiruni?s work and he lists dogs under Mars generally, but domesticated dogs under Mercury. Elsewhere he includes sellers of hounds and wolves under Mars. I like Mars, because dogs can be aggressive creatures (to test: show them a cat). And Mars rules the sense of smell, the nose or the snout -when it is prominent it typifies a ?good nose?. As you probably guessed, I?m not so much a cat person myself, so I?ve never really noticed their traditional signification. I wouldn?t have thought Saturn though.

Yep, Albiruni also lists cats under Saturn. Both he and Lilly give domesticated animals generally to the Moon though.

Update: my cat came home two days after I asked the question and is on the mend. Moon Cancer in 1st (signifying cat and question) squared Sun Aries in 2 degrees and he "turned a corner" on this first quarter moon which appears to have behaved beneficially due to the dignity of both lights. Another 2 degrees applying aspect was Mercury (L.1) sextile Venus Taurus.

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I learned a lot.

P.S. Cats have been described as creatures of the moon in many myths and stories over time and the Moon in Cancer did show up as a co-significator for my cat in this chart. Cats are certainly creatures of the night. Feline mysteriousness extends even to this: the vet told us that cats' illnesses are always much harder to diagnose than dogs'.

I can't see Saturn describing pets as we see them today. Their fleas, yes!

I'm in agreement with 6th as start-point for pets.

I start with 6th of the querant (1st), usually turn it (6th becomes 1st), consider the significators, where they're posited etc and go from there.

"there is no aspect between the 6th House and Ascendant which means theres is no connection between the person (Ascendant)"

There is also no aspect between the 2nd house and the Ascendant, therefore following this it would suggest a person has no personal connection to the area of their resources, nor that which they value? Not clearly visible therefore doesn't apply? On this premise, same would seem to apply to 12th and 8th.

Either that, or could also initially be interpreted as having no regard (or a poor/absent outlook) towards pets, domestic help, those in animal husbandry, as well as towards own resources etc. Unseen usually goes unacknowledged which also gives rise to taking certain things for granted.

Alternatively, it pertains to areas more of a private, behind the scenes nature - rather than outright displays.

In addition, no-one likes to see themselves as a pet, galley slave, ill or otherwise - people have a natural aversion to seeing themselves fall prey to such situations. However, it occurs.

Sun & Moon traverse all the houses, also contribute to shaping the area represented by each house ... there's a "personal" connection and dimension to each one of them.

" the 6th house attribution was originally based upon there being no loving relationship with the animal,"

I've not yet encountered this. Where might I find it?

As 6th also signifies Uncles, or father's brothers & sisters, this also seems to suggest no loving relationship with one's father's brothers & sisters either?

There are different types of "loving" relationships, and attachments can be revealed by the significators involved.

This seems most odd to me.

6th is generally considered an "unfortunate house" - it is an unfortunate situation for pets and other domesticated beasties to have their freedom curtailed, corralled, caged and harnessed to serve man's domestic needs and desires, not least of which is for the purpose of consumption ... it's a reality.

However people do love, value and are attached to their pets (6th trine 2nd) and others are very attached to the profits the sale of their livestock bring them.

6th - co-significator of this house is Mercury, and Virgo. Mars rejoices in this house.

It's "feminine" ... which in the relationship of Moon to Sun indicates Moon's ascent, Sun's descent.

It's trine 2nd & 10th, sextile 4th & 8th.

6th is about animal husbandry (farmers, shepherds, hogherds etc), domestic services (men/maidservants, galley slaves) & the sciences pertaining to both these fields (Mercury, co-signif. & Moon/fem.), as well as day-labourers, sickness, profit/loss on domestic stock etc.

Domestic stock is tame to varying degrees, primarily dependent on humans for sustenance.

All animals that serve humans in some way I see as belonging to 6th ... whether it's to ward off ill health (6th) via taking one's daily constitutional, or the less obvious companionship they provide which many value and find personally rewarding (trine 2nd). Relationship to 2nd brings forward "attachments" I'd have thought

And the indirect health benefits of pets is widely known.

We don't always have our pets with us all the time, visible up front, on display (1st) - it's an "indirect" connection.

They're not our children (5th), we don't create them or give birth to them, nor are they our partner's children (5 from 7). And they don't grow as children do, to assume the responsibilities that children do.
If we assist in their birthing process, that's animal husbandry (6th) and they serve us for life (usually theirs).

People treat them like children - but this doesn't convert them into children ... that's a human imposition which forces them to submit to human habits and expectations to meet human desires and ideas.

In addition, they're usually regarded "lower" than children in the family order - if not, then trouble's on the horizon.

And if a pet's seriously, seriously ill many owners will make the sad trip to the veterinary surgeon where the connection is severed ... not quite the same approach to one's own child.

There is a pecking order, and where most people are concerned pets and domestic stock are "lower" in the pecking order, albeit they do have higher sensory capabilities.

Dogs & cats (and other animals) have long served in a domestic capacity. And animals have long served peoples domestic consumption. 6th.
Routine care and handling of animals results in their taming.

Animal husbandry (6th - farmers, shepherds, hogherds etc) functions primarily for provision of domestic supply, as are the functions of maidservant, galley slaves etc.

Increasing domestication (Moon) of animals and reducing day-labour (Sun) is still 6th.

At a more visible level pets such as dogs are also companions of tradespeople, eg. builders, plumbers, farmers on their rounds which is also 6th. They frequently serve dual purposes. eg. companion and guard.

They are not direct counterparts (such as 1-7 relationship) they obey and happily serve their "boss" (trine 10th).

In addition, 6th is trine 2nd (are valued and can benefit resources - to which people can be very attached), is sextile 8th (may add to 8th house concerns) and sextile 4th (may supplement the home).

6th is also the derived 12th house of 7th, pets can be mischievous where your "significant other" is concerned (or bring undone a thief) ... as can maid/manservants, eg. gossip (Merc co-signif. of 6th).

And as 6th stands opposite 12th, domesticated animals can stand guard against - directly "see" and take to task any mischievous threats that the person represented by the Asc may be asleep to.

On the negative, they can cost you a lot, give you a lot of work, unsettle your mind, chew your shoes (opp. 12th), tear washing off the line, make their bed in the freshly laundered pile in your washing basket, or make you ill by catching one of their illnesses, often due to matters involving hygiene, and they can cause you pain and infection/inflamation (bite). Also 6th & its co-significators.

Saturn's a general significator for cats & dogs ... as Saturn's a co-significator of 1st people identify with these animals, and these animals "serve" them as pet companions.
They are also a responsibility, often had indirect jobs in keeping with their nature, and patrol (Mars, joys in 6th) boundaries (Saturn). Territorial. They can also be trained (Mercury).

They oblige authorities (trine 10th) in carrying out certain duties and also the master/mistress of the home (sextile 4th).

Mythologically and in reality both cats and dogs have been guardians of boundaries as pets in (or in a wing of, or outside) the home, in this life or the "afterlife". They usually stand by and can fret when you're quite ill (6th) and often sense when their master has passed (sext. 8th).
They were also seen as messengers (Mercury, co-signif.).

They also alert you (Mercury) to any perceived threat or violation (Mars) of boundaries (Saturn).

Cats are predatory creatures by nature, can strike quickly with their claws, are agile, playful, and hunt at night (Mercury + Moon). They're more prone to play with their unwitting victims, and one strategic swipe with a paw has been known to send dogs running with tails between their legs, however dogs can be more persistent, protective, and determined, refusing to let go.

From my pov, all houses are connected to the 1st , and to each other.

To me it's more of a difference between what's up front & obvious vs what's occurring more behind the scenes.

To suggest 6th is not connected to 1st (at least in my view) is the equivalent of suggesting that an illness (6th) is not connected to the querant who's enquiring about their health concern.

It's connected, and it's very personal.

An illness (6th) can cause someone to slip from view, a redirect from ascent ... but the illness is not disconnected from the person involved nor the head.

Intestinal pains (6th) can sharpen someone's tongue and cause poor facial pallour.

Intestines (6th) are not attached directly to the head (1st), however if the intestines weren't connected the head wouldn't function.

Perhaps the disconnect may also be indicative of a disconnect from gut instinct?

Pets serve a function.
If they make you feel safer, protect your property, give you a sense of peace of mind or comfort, are part of your health routine, eg. walking which goes towards warding off ill health, then to me this is primarily the area of the 6th and functions of its co-significators as they also relate to other houses and planets.

Servants are also connected to the master by way of money - Mercury, co-significator of 6th and their domestic duties are beneficial to the 4th - co-significator, Sun. Lord in the manor. In addition, 6th trines 10th.

Interactions with tradespeople and servants are of a private and personal nature - they affect your home ( sextile 4th), your resources (trine 2nd) and in days gone by went towards your reputation and social standing.

Mercury (co-sig. of 6th) also = messages ... animals sensory faculties are usually much better than people, and are often used to serve people. To work with people they're domesticated, tamed, and their natural aptitudes harnessed. Harnessing them to human desires can redirect their behaviour, but their natural instincts survive.

Then again, science (animal husbandry - Mercury co-signif. of 6th) has become so clever (Mercury) we're now reportedly cloning (Mercury) animals for public consumption. That'll come back to bite (Mars) .... such is the nature of the 6th.

I'm quite sure I'm missing the reason why pets aren't of the 6th and it's significators ... but so far, it's worked for me.

Tara, glad to hear your cat's on the mend.