Moving overseas chart: advice please!

1
Hi folks,

The husband and I are in constant debate about whether or not to move back to the US from England. The husband, who is English, likes the States. I, who am American, prefer England. We moved back to England from the States two years ago, but it's a hard slog: exorbitant house prices, low wages. We have family in both countries, but my family in the States are more 'helpful' to us, financially and emotionally (and the kiddies miss their grandma!). So I posed the question, 'Should we move back to the United States?'.

30 Nov 2006, 21:08 0e02 52n11 (Comberton, England)


I am unsure as to whether the US is represented by the 9th, as a 'foreign country', or the 4th as the place of my birth/childhood; but I find it interesting that both the 4th and 9th are emphasized in this chart, in separating but favorable aspect, with the moon in the sign of the Sun's exaltation.

But does Saturn in the 1st prohibit the reading of this chart, and what about that Neptune sitting right smack on the 7th angle? If I took the 1st to be 'we', meaning my husband and I (or, our family incl. kids), what does the 7th then indicate?

I'd really, really appreciate some feedback, enlightenment, pointers, etc. as this is quite the serious question for us. And if someone could please give some idea of how to affix the blasted chart image to the post I'd be eternally grateful, as I seem incapable of figuring it out!!

Thanks a lot.
AG

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?la ... res=75&va=

2
Hi Archergirl,

I'm just on my way out so I haven't looked at the chart yet but I am wondering whether it might be better to use Lilly's method of whether to move or not (p. 212 of CA) using the fourth house as your current place of residence and the seventh as the residence to which you may move. Even though your move involves different countries and the ninth would be relevant, since you and your husband are familiar with both countries it is not so much an issue of whether to move overseas but rather one of which place is best for you. I am not really sure about this. It is just a possibility. You would then look at the fourth house ruler and seventh house ruler to see which is the stronger of the two and the relationship it has with the ascendant. I would consider the ascendant to be relating to the whole family as a unit asking the question. Saturn in the first is not a barrier to reading the chart. Saturn is the ruler of the seventh house. It's position in the first would be highly relevant. Neptune on the descendant is worthy of note too.

3
Ruler of 1st Sun ? sag ? 4th seems correct you are currently in 4 and you personally would prefer to stay in 4th. Sun has some dignity here, It might be argued that sun is close enough to 5th to be read in 5th, which would argue toward you leaving current location.

Moon ? in 9th in Aries, suggests a desire to Travel, Trine Venus, 4th ruler, applying, Pof is also here, so possibly a trip to states would help decide the matter?

Ruler of 4th ? Libra Venus, in 5th Venus loves the 5th house of children and productivity and has some dignity in Sagittarius,

Ruler of 7th Aquarius, Saturn in first house? Saturn is not dignified in Leo and further is retrograde, so argues somewhat I think against a move. Neptune on 7th seems to speak of illusions, ideals? Possibly a trip Home might dispel husbands idealized recollection of living here?

Ruler of 9th Pisces, Jupiter in 4th in Sagittarius, suggests benefit from travel?

Ruler of 10th in 4th suggests (mars in own sign of Scorpio) that work in current location is good? If I?m not mistaken? Though mars is traveling towards Sagittarius and has some dignity there, not as much as in own sign I think?

Well these are some of the things I see as being significant in the chart, I?m sure more will come from other sources.

Granny

4
The chart is radical as the Sun hour matches the Leo ASC.

When looking at these kinds of question, I look at the ASC and Moon of course, but also the 4th house as your current house, the 7th house as the possible new house, and also since this is a potential move overseas, the 9th house.

You are signified by the ASC lord, the Sun peregrine in Sagittarius, which has just left the 4th house.

Your current house is the lord of the 4th, Venus in Sagittarius, peregrine, also in the 5th, having just left the 4th house. The sign on the 4th house cusp is Libra, a movable sign. The sign on the cusp is at 28?, it?s late. A movable sign and late degrees show a change.

Any new house that you?d get in America is shown by the lord of the 7th house, Saturn, in detriment in Leo, in the ASC. The sign on the 7th house cups is Aquarius, a fixed sign.

The Moon is in the 9th house, the house of overseas travels. Your mind is overseas.

The Moon translates light from Jupiter, through the Sun (you) and on to your current house (Venus).

Your current job is the 10th house ruler Mars, which is in the 4th house. Your job is there in England with you now. Mars is square to Saturn. A move to America would be bad for your current job, obviously.

Jupiter, the significator of overseas travels is by far the strongest planet in this chart. He?s in his own sign and he?s angular. Though he?s coming out of combustion, more and more you?re beginning to see him. The prospects of a move overseas are becoming more and more apparent and real to you.

Jupiter also disposits both your significator and the significator of your current house.

The part of fortune is in the 9th house.

Neptune sits right on the 7th house cusp. You?re confused about the idea of moving to America.

Those are the basic facts of this chart. Let?s put it all together. You?re confused. In some ways, you?ve already made up your mind, as your significator is just now leaving your current house. The thought of living in America is the strongest thing here. Your mind is strongly influenced by thoughts of a move overseas. But your current house is not that bad a place really. Your job is there. Saturn in detriment shows that the new house doesn?t offer you much. The new house in America is on your mind as shown by it being in the ASC, but the thought of a move is not pleasant to you. Your current house isn?t that bad. Even if it?s peregrine Venus is more appealing than Saturn in detriment.

Though this is a mixed bag, the direction of the chart seems to show a move, but with you resisting it.

The hardest part that I had with this chart is how to think of the Moon translating light from Jupiter through the Sun and on to Venus. In a general way it means that the overseas trip is brought to your current house with your assistance.

Though some may say that since the final aspect is a trine with the significator of your current house, this would mean that you?re going to stay put, I have to say that I don?t think so. Also in favor of staying is the fact that the current house is stronger than the new house. And it could also be said that since your significator is separating from Jupiter, that you?re moving past the idea of moving overseas. Yes, but that could just as well show that the idea of moving overseas came to you in the past. The fact is that your significator has just left the 4th house.

But the overall pattern that I get from this chart is a reluctant move. Your significator is just leaving your current house. Jupiter is so very strong, it rules everything here. The sign on the 4th house cusp is movable and the degree is late which both point to a change. The sign on the 7th house cusp is fixed and the part of fortune is in the 9th house. With Saturn in the first, you may not like the idea of a move, but it seems like it will happen.
Mark F

5
Wow! I am continually amazed at what skilled readers can pick out of a chart!

Everything that has been suggested is 100% accurate; I love living in England, I'm happy here, despite the hard work/lack of money. I have a decent job and good friends. I wondered whether the Moon in the 9th with POF might very well indicate my absolute *love* of being close to Europe and my desire to travel there, since the Sun from the current house disposits it.

Granny-skot hit the nail on the head with the husband's idealized recollections of living in the States (Neptune 7th). I have to remind Mr. Archergirl of this, frequently. But he dreams on...

But Mr. AG, and rightly so, says the pay is better and the opportunities more plentiful, in the States. He, certainly, would 'do' much better in the States. My mother lives there; she's a fantastic (and well-off) grandmother. She helps in all sorts of tangible and intangible ways. The kids would have more support from other family.

It's really a rock and a hard place for me. My needs? Or the 'greater good'? I love living in 'foreign' countries; for me, it's better to be a stranger in a strange land, than to feel like a stranger in the country of my birth, which was always the case. (I have natal Jupiter in the 9th and Weeping Pleiades on the H4 cusp... no wonder...)

This has provided much food for thought. Thanks so much for pitching in! :'

6
Having thought about this further after a few communications, I'm wondering whether the chart couldn't be interpreted slightly differently.

Would it be possible to consider that the 9th house in this case *does* represent 'England' or 'foreign country', since I, as the querent, am a 'foreigner' here. If this were the case, then Jupiter, H9 ruler in H4, would elegantly represent the idea that the 'foreign' country, is *home* for me, and in strength; Venus as H4 ruler of our current 'home', takes pleasure in the 5th, which would further indicate that I, at least, love the 'home' I'm in now. The Moon applying by trine with the POF from the 9th to 'this home' ruler Venus, would have much greater strength, indicating my desire to stay in a 'foreign' home, especially as the moon is in the sign of the Sun's exaltation.

Would this interpretation be considered valid?

Thanks a bunch.
AG

7
I'd just add one thing that I wrote, and that follows the axiom that without an aspect, there is no event. When I first thought of that, I thought well maybe you'd stay in England. But then I looked at how the Sun is leaving the 4th house, and even if that's not an aspect, it is motion. Can we do timing from this? I really don't know. It's seven degrees from the next house. So that's a choice of seven weeks, months or years.
Mark F

8
Cheers, Mark. Seven years, realistically, would be the most likely. Seven months would be logistically difficult as we'd have to sell all our things first. Maybe in seven years I'll be ready for a change!

9
Hi Archergirl,

I am not sure if I have the correct chart here. I have the Sun already in the 5th house of my chart. I went by the details you gave in the first post. The Sun and Venus, significator of the 4th house, are both in the 5th. I said that you should take the 1st house as representing your family but on second consideration I am not so sure. This seems to be your dilemma at the moment and it appears that you are torn between what the rest of your family wants and what you are happiest with. In that case I would read the chart purely from your own perspective.

The Moon in the 9th, rather than representing a move overseas, may signify that you are emotionally satisfied in a foreign place. I have Moon in the 9th natally and have always longed to live in England. I feel completely at home whenever I am there. The Moon in your chart is applying to Venus, which seems to be that you are happy where you are and wish to stay. Ruler of the 9th is also in your current home (4th house). No doubt you will have to take your family into consideration and in the end it would be a joint decision but if this was just you I would say that you are already in the place that is best for you.

10
Hi Sue,

Thanks very much for your input; it reinforces the conclusion I came to! If Mark is correct and a 'change' may/will happen in seven 'somethings' (let's say years), that would mean the kids will be in secondary school, by which time it may behoove the family to have a rethink. But it tears at my heart to think of leaving England anytime soon. I just bought a new sofa! :lol:

11
Sorry to pop this back up top, but I'd like to give an update. After this chart was cast/debated, the husband and I (well, actually, just *I*, being the alpha female and all 8) ) made the decision to move back to the States after all. It was/is a completely pragmatic decision as there's no way we'll get ahead in England under the current conditions.

It looks like MarkF hit the nail on the head: our departure date is set for sometime in June, about seven months after the chart was cast. Well done, Mark!