Friend or Foe?

1
If I ask the question, IS this person Friend or Foe, would the Person I"m speaking about be the AScendent and or Moon or ??? since I"m trying ot figure out if they belong as 11 or 7 or 12, it seems logical they would be 1st house? thank you for your help, Granny

2
I would think it would be the 7th, as you would be the Ascendant; although there is debate about the 7th being used for general 'Other' people. It's the house of open enemies, so, since you 'know' the person about whom you are asking, the 7th would make more sense than the 12th, which would be 'hidden' enemies, yes? There was a long thread awhile back about using the 11th for a 'potential' friend; but I'd still be inclined to use the 7th.

3
I'm not certain if that makes sense as I want to know if this person fits the 7,11 or 12, really 11 or 12 category, as if they were an open enemy I would think I'd be aware of it instead of wondering? this is a person who has been an aquaintence for several years, but sometimes things they say or do leave me wondering if they aren't an enemy? Yes I should trust my instincts, but I'm hoping for some stellar confimation here. ??? confused here, not critical.

Granny

6
I haven't done the chart yet as I was not certain how to read it. The person in question is someone whom I've known several years, who emailed me an email that really irritated me. Her speaking manner has a tendency to do that anyway, as to me she seem highly insensitive to others, though she is personally a highly sensitive person. AS in she would have no trouble telling you she thinks you look better in blue, but if you said same to her, she'd burst out crying, kind of person.

she ahs sense written back saying she didn't mean to sound critical, that she really wants to chat, but my instincts are still screaming to put on plate armor and keep my self to myself. sigh... I dont know, something bugs me here. We could I suppose do the chart for right this moment,
Is E a friend or foe? 11:02 am Monrovia, CA on 15 November 2006
Monrovia is in the astro.com database

Granny

7
Being that she's not your 'friend' I *still* wouldn't use the 11th, but the 7th. An 'acquaintance' is not necessarily a friend until proven otherwise. The 11th is an exalted house and is used for pleasurable things of a higher nature: friendship, hopes, and idealism amongst them. I wouldn't put someone whose intentions I mistrust into this house. The 7th still seems the most appropriate.

8
when I drew that I came up with a saturn in the seventh house. As I understand it that creates problems in reading.

However, from a non astrological pov...if something smells wrong, maybe it is wrong. If there's someone in your life who only causes trouble, even if they have no malice towards you they may not be the best person to keep around.

9
I think that warning about Saturn in the 7th only applies when someone else asks you a question. The basis for it is that when someone else asks you to do a question, you as the astrologer, i.e., the business partner of the querent, is the 7th house. So if Saturn is in the 7th house, then Saturn afflicts you as the astrologer. It's a warning only when you're working with a client. When you're doing your own chart the same warning would be shown by Saturn in the ASC. It's a warning, not a sign to throw out the whole chart.

I also would determine how you felt about the person before you do a question and then use that consistently within the chart. If you see the person as a friend, then use the 11th house. At heart what you are asking is what kind of friend will this person be, will they be a good friend or someone who causes you more trouble then they are worth. That would be shown by the qualities and conditions of the 11th house. You might find a well-dignified 11th house and ruler, or an 11th house that is blighted, or something in between.

I cannot more strongly disagree with the idea that since the person and you are not already fast and beloved friends that you can't use the 11th house to signify them. Whether you two are now, will soon be or will never be close and devoted friends will be shown by the sign on the 11th house, it's ruler and any planets it's in contact with and by any planets within the 11th house. The 11th house, like any other house, is a big place. There is room enough and symbolism enough to cover anything from an acquaintance that never pans out, to your best life long friend, to someone who is a friend but who is inconsistent or troubles you a lot.

I would only use the 7th house if you already see the person as an enemy with whom you struggle. The fact that you are opposed to and struggle with the person should be the main part of the relationship. Think of your opponent in a lawsuit or an office rival. The basis of these relationships is all about a rivalry, an opposition between two people.

The 7th house is not a cosmic lost sock drawer where you keep things that don?t fit neatly into other areas of life. The confusion comes from the fact that the essential quality of the 7th house is one of otherness. This is the house of ?the other person? in the sense of there is me and there is you, a kind of joining by opposition. So the 7th house covers our opposite with whom we are joined with in marriage. Think of how we refer to our spouse as ?the other half?. The 7th also covers business partners, opponents in lawsuits and a person who steals from us.

The 7th house doesn?t mean ?other? in the sense of "none of the above". It doesn't mean any kind of relationship that is undefined. I think some have taken this word ?other? and applied it in a way that it was never meant to be taken. The 7th house refers to a person with whom there is a powerful connection, similar to the kind seen in any planetary opposition.

Since this person who Granny has known for several years doesn't seem to fall into the category of an open enemy I'd use the 11th house and then look to its condition for the answer as to what kind of person they are.
The 11th is an exalted house and is used for pleasurable things of a higher nature: friendship, hopes, and idealism amongst them. I wouldn't put someone whose intentions I mistrust into this house.
Well, no. It can be an exalted house but it also can be a really rotten place, just like any other house in a chart. When you say that it's an exalted place you're thinking of it in the abstract, as the place where a planet in its diurnal motion has nowhere to go but up, as the place where Jupiter exalts. But in a particular chart it can show whatever symbolism and meaning that the chart wants to show.

In Granny?s chart here, the main thing that I see is that she?s shown by Saturn in the 7th house. As Saturn she?s suspicious and skeptical of this person. She?s also about the make a square to the Sun, which rules the sign Saturn is in and is expressed in the 7th house, as it?s intercepted there. I?d say that indicates that the rivalry and contrariness of the person will come to light in a difficult way. There isn?t any applying contact between Granny and this person, who is shown by Jupiter as the 11th house ruler. Saturn and Jupiter have just finished up a dance where they?ve been in repeated squares with each other. Now Jupiter is on it?s way past Saturn and will change signs soon. I?d use that to symbolize your long standing but troubled contact with this person. You?ve known each other a while, it?s had periods of flare ups of trouble, but you still haven?t let go of the person. But now it would seem to be a friendship that is either winding down or cooling off a lot as this aspect is separating. Jupiter?s change of signs shows that this person will be entering a new phase in their life. If I had to guess, I?d say that you won?t see much of this person in the future. Your aspect is finally separating, Jupiter is changing signs, and most importantly Jupiter will soon by totally obscured by the Sun. In fact Jupiter is already now combust and that will be increasing as time goes on. Applying combustion is more powerful than separating combustion. This person is passing out of view from you, and when they come out of that, they will be at a different point in their life.

This is somewhat contradicted by the Moon which is applying by sextile to Jupiter. But the Moon is peregrine, in the 8th house and there is no reception between Jupiter and the Moon. I?d see this as you two having some contact within the next two days or weeks, but that it won?t change the overall picture which is a friendship that is on the wane.

As Jupiter in Scorpio which is peregrine, this person is not malicious by nature as Jupiter never really is, but that strong Scorpio presence will come out, even more so as Mars, the dispositor of Jupiter and just about everything else is himself very strong now. Typically that Scorpio-Mars influence might be expressed indirectly in a somewhat poisonous nature. You mentioned a troubling e-mail that got you on this train of thought, and there sits Mars, the ruler of the 3rd house, squarely on the 10th house cusp. This e-mail and the person?s powerful words are front and center in this chart.

I wonder about Venus here, which is right about conjunct with Jupiter. Venus rules the radical 9th but also the turned 11th house. Does this person have another friend with whom they are getting closer to? That?s just a thought. Venus also rules this person?s turned 6th house, so it could be an oncoming illness. The fact that Venus is so very close to Jupiter suggests to me that it is important. Do you have any ideas about this?
Mark F