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Gordon Brown
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SIDERUM



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Salta, Republica Argentina

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject: Gordon Brown Reply with quote

Anybody know the time birth of James Gordon Brown?
Regards
Mario
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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do Very Happy

http://www.astrotheme.fr/portraits/yndgxY4Df5aj.htm and elsewhere give:
20 Feb 1951 8.40am Giffnock, Scotland

Kim
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SIDERUM



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Salta, Republica Argentina

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank Kim!!!!
You have a data when he was married Gordon?
Thank!!!
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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 August 2000.

There's a biography here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown

Kim
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realising that I’ve never actually looked at Brown’s chart (shameful, since he’s expected to be the next leader of the Labour party and has a good chance of being the next Prime Minister), I’ve tried to recreate his horoscope with Placidus cusps from the data on that page.

The date they give is:
20 Feb 1951 – 8:40 am
Giffnock, Scotland

I couldn’t find a place called ‘Giffnock’, but ‘Gifford’ gave the same angles as the chart on that site. It’s the pity there’s no source for the data. Maybe someone can offer some confirmation?

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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I couldn’t find a place called ‘Giffnock’


In the south of Glasgow 55°48'0"N 4°17'0"W

Quote:
It’s the pity there’s no source for the data. Maybe someone can offer some confirmation?


Astrotheme is a real pain for not giving sources, although I've found its data to usually be quite good. However, this data is used in loads of places, including by the AA http://www.astrologer.com/aanet/pub/journal/jour_novdec00a.html and it is Scottish Very Happy

Kim
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1635
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow a real sea saw with a real Pivot !

Jupiter in his own sign. Been having a grand time with uranus lately I'm sure and with TJupiter currently trine natal He is probably having a fairly good run with popularity.

natal sun trine natal uranus, is he a bit serendipitous? does he do well with chaotic situations? Not being in UK, I'm really not familiar with this person, but this chart is water and air with only a small dash of Fire (though I'm rather fond of Leo moons, mine 18 Leo, daughters 12 and 16 Leo, he's a bit old to be one of my kids though, chuckles!)

and I dont think a node in earth could be called even a dash of earth, he's earth lite I'd say. satisfies the idealism, but might not be as practical as one would like to see in a leader. that can lead to much higher taxes and less efficiency. is he balanced by a practical cohort in any way? Okay, my lack of knowledge about the person is probably showing through fiercely, but I definitely think this person needs some earth balance to be an effective leader. What do you brits think? Did I even come close?

Oh yeah, and afte the US has had such a lovely time with a 12 house water sun leader, do you really want to go there? Might be worth considering? hmmmmm.

Granny
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone taking odds Mr. Brown will end up in prison? The rulers of his 9th (politics), 10th (career), and ASC are all in the 12th house, as is his Sun. The chart has only two aspects (I don't use Uranus), Venus conjunct Mars and Moon applying to an opposition with Mercury, and these are either in the 12th, or involved the 12th - Mercury in 12 opposing Moon in 6.

There are three planets in great dignity, Jupiter (domicile), Venus (exaltation), and Saturn, (exaltation). But Saturn lord 10 is retrograde (works against the native).

The Jupiter is conjunct the fixed star Achernar (nature of Jupiter gives success in public office - Robson) and the ASC is conjunct Alpheratz (honor and a keen intellect - Robson).

His 2007 solar return (cast for the birth place) has Spica on the ASC and Arcturus (Good fortune, with many cares and anxieties through own folly - Robson). The star Baten Kaitos is setting in the SR chart, and this star is associated with shipwrecks. Given the loaded house of self undoing (natal), this looks to be a significant year for Mr. Brown.

Tom
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the highly see saw chart, possibly a padded cell ? imprisonment might not be from unlawful conduct, can be other things, although with politicians, unlawful conduct is generally more prevelant... Granny
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SIDERUM



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Salta, Republica Argentina

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion the correct hour is 08:26:20 UT, ASC=05º19'Aries; MC=01º37' Capricorn.
From correction I observe that Gordon has accident risk, or a health problem (heart) or an attack!!!

Mario
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Coder



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 143

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer the earlier time of 08:26:20 UT. This puts Saturn close to the Descendant, and together with the Mars/Venus conjunction in Pisces which is not aspected by other major bodies (excepting Kepler's aspects) would account for marriage relatively late in life.
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gemini sungirl



Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 21
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The rulers of his 9th (politics), 10th (career), and ASC are all in the 12th house, as is his Sun. The chart has only two aspects (I don't use Uranus), Venus conjunct Mars and Moon applying to an opposition with Mercury, and these are either in the 12th, or involved the 12th - Mercury in 12 opposing Moon in 6.


hmm don't you think that in a sense, Brown is already imprisoned- through his politics /career? I wonder how many other people stuck in a position of being blocked by their boss would have moved jobs by now.
I wonder too about the quincunx of saturn / sun - opposition by house across 6th 12th, but 150 degrees by sign. In context with the 12th house north node, to me it speaks of a lesson involving letting go.
gs
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
hmm don't you think that in a sense, Brown is already imprisoned- through his politics /career?


I'm at a serious disadvantage here since I simply don't know much about Gordon Brown, and I do think that we can take a lot of the symbolism metaphoricaly, as you've done, as well as literaly. My remark about him going to prison was hyperbole and intended to draw attention to his loaded 12th house. I don't really think he is going to prison.

As for his being "imprisoned" in his job, like you say he could have left and done other things. I'm sure he has the skills. The fact that he didn't indicates he is in his position of his own free will.

What we might want to keep our eye on is Morinus' interpretation of the 12th house. He said it represented illlness. This is at odds with probably every other astrologer before him. If he does become seriously ill (or perhaps he has in the past), Jupiter in Pisces would ultimately save him from death (or imprisonment for that matter), at least that is Morinus' view. He would say the same for imprisonment. In other words, let's assume a major scandal is revealed, the fact that he has the two benefics in great dignity in the 12th would save him from permanent damage due to the scandal. The same would be true of illness. He might suffer a serious illness, but it would not kill him.

Tom
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SIDERUM



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Salta, Republica Argentina

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said in Sept 30, 2006!!!

[quote="SIDERUM"]In my opinion the correct hour is 08:26:20 UT, ASC=05º19'Aries; MC=01º37' Capricorn.
From correction I observe that Gordon has accident risk, or a health problem (heart) or an attack!!!

Mario[/quote]

The last Solar Return for Gordon, have ASC=24ºLibra Square Mars!!!
The Next Lunar Return have Mars in 5ºAries Conjuntion ASC Rx!!!
The Secundary Progress have ASC=5ºCancer conjuntion Uranus Rx=5ºCancer!!! Pay Attention!!!
Regards
Mario
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5020
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I don't understand the basis of rectifying the birth data to 8.26am. You may prefer the chart it produces but its unlikely to be correct. Here in Scotland all birth times are recorded on the birth certificate so this birth time is not as vague as a lot of English birth times where this is not the practice.

The 8.40am time has been personally confirmed by Caroline Gerard (Chair of the Scottish Astrological Association) who has checked Brown's birth certificate for his time of birth. The birth data of 8.40am is therefore likely to be accurate and Scottish astrologers have been using this time for some years.

Mark
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