How much reliance (if any) on essential dignity rulers?

1
Well, I'm probably in the same boat as the woman serving her country who is wondering if her boyfriend still loves her...

But I just asked a question regarding a dear friend of mine (whom I've had mad crush on in the past, but now, not so much).

My question was "If I invite (him) to drive back (home) with me, will it bring up closer?"

The circumstances are that I am planning a nearly cross-country drive home after finishing law school, he just lost his best friend, who died, and I wanted to ask him to help me drive home both to cheer him up and to re-establish the close friendship we had.

The question was asked at 8:05 a.m., Sept. 9 (the day his friend is being buried) in Brighton, MI.

The chart follows: http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?la ... es=100&va=

As you can see, I'm represented by Mercury and he's the Sun. There is no relationship between these two planets although they are in the same sign. (Mercury is cadent, but about to apply to the Ascendent, where it would be dignified both by house and by sign.) The Moon in Aries doesn't tie them together either.

However (and here's where my question comes in along with wishful thinking) when you look at the table of essential dignities you see the following:

Moon at 11 Aries is in the terms of Venus

Venus at 4 Virgo is in the terms of Mercury
Mercury at 24 Virgo is in the terms of Mars
Mars at 0 Libra is in the terms of Venus


Sun at 16 Virgo is in the terms of Jupiter
Jupiter in 14 Scorpio is in the terms of Venus
(Venus at 4 Virgo is in the terms of Mercury)

So, does this interaction of the planets by term mean anything?

2
Hi Voyagergirl,

Unfortunately in this case it does not mean anything relevant for your chart. For a start, you would only be looking at the main significators when attempting to identify reception. I am not sure whether you are using Venus and Mars as natural significators in this situation. Primarily, you would be looking to see if there is reception between the Sun and Mercury or the Moon and the Sun. In this case, there is none. However, in this chart, the Moon is in the exaltation, and triplicity and face of the Sun meaning that the Moon is received favourably by the Sun. The problem is that there is no aspect and no mutual reception. The Sun is in the rulership and exaltation of Mercury, which means that Mercury receive the Sun very favourably and treat him well. But again, there is no aspect and no mutual reception. His significator is in the 12th house, which may seem appropriate for someone who has just lost his best friend. He may well want to hide away and spend some time alone. Mercury is in its rulership and exaltation but is still combust the Sun so it is being overpowered. A question that was raised on another thread some time back was whether a planet has the power to overcome combustion if it has enough strength in itself. Mercury is quite strong here. It is in its own rulership, it is in its own exaltation, and it is angular in the 1st house. It is very close to coming out of combustion and I am inclined to think that the effects of combustion are not that great here. Others may disagree.

Generally speaking, reception only applies when there is an aspect between the two planets. The Sun and Mercury are within conjunction but this is a separating aspect. If there is no aspect, mutual reception is required. That is, Mercury would need to be received by the Sun and the Sun by Mercury by at least rulership, exaltation or triplicity. Terms and face are the weaker of the dignities and Bonatus says that for a successful outcome at least two lots of mutual reception are required at that level. For example, Mercury would need to be in the terms and face of the Sun and the Sun in the terms and face of Mercury or the Moon in the terms and face of the Sun.

I think the bottom line here is that your significator is separating from his and therefore I believe you will go without him.

In case you haven't yet read it, Deb's article on reception is an excellent explanation of this very valuable technique. It wasn't until I read this article that I fully comprehended how to use it.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/reception.html

3
I am wondering why you used the 11th house rather than the 7th for this question. It sounds more of a 7th house question to me, and the chart seems to make more sense if you do.

You are still mercury separating from the conjunction to the sun- I think the sun here represents what you call your past crush on him. You are still under the sunbeams but as Sue said it is no longer a strong effect due to the degrees of separation and mercury's essential dignity. Also the 12th house position seems to represent your hidden agenda here which is still influencing your thinking.

He is then jupiter in his own 8th, preoccupied with death. (His dead friend would probably be represented by his 11th (the chart's 5th) - ruled by saturn but that is not very relevant here).

So back to receptions: Jupiter makes no aspect with and has no reception with mercury, and it is in the sign of the moon's fall, with which it also makes no aspect. Mercury is also in the sign of jupiter's detriment. It looks to me as if this is a bad time for getting closer to him. Interesting that I come to the same conclusion as Sue even using the different house.

Maybe you need to wait until he has some time to come to terms with losing the friend. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't ask him if he want to drive in case he needs someone to talk about his friend's death. He is in the sign of scorpio that rules your third house of communication so he receptive to the question. He may not want to talk, but you should ask - although that bit is not astrological advice!

4
Also the 12th house position seems to represent your hidden agenda here which is still influencing your thinking.
I have the querent in the 1st house. She is within five degrees of the ascendant and so is deemed to be in the 1st house. I wondered in passing why this wasn't a 7th house question but it would only be a 7th house question if the querent was hoping for more than friendship. Since she placed him on the 11th house of friendship we have to take her word for it.

Terms?

5
Thank you all. I too, decided the chart didn't seem very favorable for him getting closer to me during a cross-country drive after he'd lost his best friend.

In any case, I did email him asking him if he wanted to go, so I'll let you know the answer!

The horary was right-- unfortunately -- but why?

6
Ok, I asked my friend if he wanted to help me drive cross country, and as everyone predicted from the horary, the answer was no: although he seemed quite disappointed that he "couldn't" go.

Now my question is "WHY" can't he go? Is the answer contained in the first horary, or does that chart answer only the question asked, as Barbara Watters states?

In that case, I just now asked a new question: Why won't (the guy) help me drive (home)? Note: I am using the 11th house for him, as we've never been more than just friends.

Of course, now, our two significators MA for me and ME for him, are together in the chart in his 11th house. In fact, they are only two degrees away from perfecting. But notice that hidden in his 12th house, just on the cusp of his 1st (the chart's 11th) are the Sun and Venus. Obviously someone behind the scenes is keeping him at home. But here, VE rules his 4th house, so someone or something at home is keeping him there. (Interestingly, he has two sisters who live at home with him.) He's also been keeping "company" with a much younger woman and her mother, whom he helps support, because he's infatuated with the much younger woman. (He doesn't know that I am aware of this however. His sisters told me last Christmas and they're pretty upset about it. )

Anyway, here's the new chart.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor ... gm=a1&ast=

The horary was right-- unfortunately -- but why?

7
Ok, I asked my friend if he wanted to help me drive cross country, and as everyone predicted from the horary, the answer was no: although he seemed quite disappointed that he "couldn't" go.

Now my question is "WHY" can't he go? Is the answer contained in the first horary, or does that chart answer only the question asked, as Barbara Watters states?

In that case, I just now asked a new question: Why won't (the guy) help me drive (home)? Note: I am using the 11th house for him, as we've never been more than just friends.

Of course, now, our two significators MA for me and ME for him, are together in the chart in his 11th house. In fact, they are only two degrees away from perfecting. But notice that hidden in his 12th house, just on the cusp of his 1st (the chart's 11th) are the Sun and Venus. Obviously someone behind the scenes is keeping him at home. But here, VE rules his 4th house, so someone or something at home is keeping him there. (Interestingly, he has two sisters who live at home with him.) He's also been keeping "company" with a much younger woman and her mother, whom he helps support, because he's infatuated with the much younger woman. (He doesn't know that I am aware of this however. His sisters told me last Christmas and they're pretty upset about it. )

Anyway, here's the new chart.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor ... gm=a1&ast=

The horary was right-- unfortunately -- but why?

8
Ok, I asked my friend if he wanted to help me drive cross country, and as everyone predicted from the horary, the answer was no: although he seemed quite disappointed that he "couldn't" go.

Now my question is "WHY" can't he go? Is the answer contained in the first horary, or does that chart answer only the question asked, as Barbara Watters states?

In that case, I just now asked a new question: Why won't (the guy) help me drive (home)? Note: I am using the 11th house for him, as we've never been more than just friends.

Of course, now, our two significators MA for me and ME for him, are together in the chart in his 11th house. In fact, they are only two degrees away from perfecting. But notice that hidden in his 12th house, just on the cusp of his 1st (the chart's 11th) are the Sun and Venus. Obviously someone behind the scenes is keeping him at home. But here, VE rules his 4th house, so someone or something at home is keeping him there. (Interestingly, he has two sisters who live at home with him.) He's also been keeping "company" with a much younger woman and her mother, whom he helps support, because he's infatuated with the much younger woman. (He doesn't know that I am aware of this however. His sisters told me last Christmas and they're pretty upset about it. )

Anyway, here's the new chart.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor ... gm=a1&ast=