So, I've left behind a wonderful person to go serve my country and pursue some career goals. He still has to finish college. Of course with the stress of boot camp (albeit the watered down officer's bootcamp) and the stress of missinghim, and the stress of being a stellium virgo (lol) I've started to wonder whether or not he still loves me (they don't let us recieve mail or send e-mail often so it's been hard to hear from him) So I asked "Does he still love me?" at 7:05 pm, September 8, 2006 in Newport RI.


First thing I saw pulling up the chart was a lot of sqaure and opposition, so of course I say "uh oh!" But then a closer look. Pisces is the ascendant at 17 degrees (interestingly, that's close to conjunct my natal moon) and the moon was in the first house in aries at 2 degrees. So jupiter is my significator, and the placement of pisces in the first house suggests an emotionally troubling matter, one possibly being clouded. Well, I love him very much and I'm trying to think on 3 hours of sleep/night, which, for this little virgo/pisces moon is hard.

So what else? Seventh house is virgo, making him mercury. moon and mercury in a seperating opposition, so there's seperation, but the worst of the opposition is over, as the aspect is seperating. The moon is also in a seperating opposition from mars. and both mars and mercury (his significator) are in my seventh house. The moon, my seconday significator is in his seventh house. The reciprocity of significators in seventh houses suggests that both parties very much see each others as partners and are still committed, but there are of course problems.

That old devil saturn is in the sixth house making an applying trine to teh midhaven and a square to jupiter (my significator in the 8th) and neptune in the 12th. Saturn in the sixth is forcing work which will support the career (midhaven) but be at odds with the desires of the querent. However the sun is also conjunct the descendant again suggesting importance in the relationship.

So, the reading I got from this is that yes, there is still love, but there will be a lot of saturn work that may make the realtionship hard. However, the nice thing about saturn is, it also brings stability and witht he right work and commitment, the realtionship can work even with the distance.

so....how did I do? Wishful thinking or did I get it?

Hi Virgolass,

I had a look at your chart and, unfortunately, I see things a little differently. I think you will have a hard time making this relationship work. If we take one step at a time we can soon see that there is not a lot of contact between you both. Jupiter is your significator and Mercury is his. They do not have an aspect between them, applying or otherwise. There is also no mutual reception between the two planets. If we look at the Moon, your co significator, again we see no contact to his significator. The Moon's last aspect was to Mars and its next is to Saturn so, in a sense, it is besieged. Although the Moon will be applying to Saturn by trine, it will not necessarily be an easy aspect. These are the only two aspects that the Moon will make while in Aries. It separated from Mercury some time ago, perhaps indicating the time you went away.

Jupiter (your significator) is in Scorpio in the 8th house and is not all that strong. Apart from being located in an unfavourable house it is in the detriment of Mercury (his significator) indicating that Mercury does not look upon Jupiter favourably and may, in fact, be bad for it.

Mercury, on the other hand is relatively strong. It is in the 7th house, suggesting that he is concerned with his own affairs. It is in an angular house and is in its own rulership and exaltation. It is, however, combust although within a degree of being free of combustion. However, it will still remain under the Sun's beamsafter that time.

Pluto is angular on the 10th house cusp and is squaring almost everything. It is in a very close square with Mercury by only a few minutes. It is hard to miss Pluto up at the top of the chart. The 10th house is the house of career and since career is most definitely a factor in this situation I would say that career will perhaps be the deciding factor and that it may not end well.

Sorry if this seems a bit negative. Others might be able to shed a more positive light on things that I have missed.

Cheers
Sue

Hi,

Sue wrote

Jupiter (your significator) is in Scorpio in the 8th house and is not all that strong. Apart from being located in an unfavourable house it is in the detriment of Mercury (his significator) indicating that Mercury does not look upon Jupiter favourably and may, in fact, be bad for it.

Sue, I know you did not mean to say that Scorpio is the sign of Mercury's detriment, nevertheless, its sounds that way. Help! Re-phrase for Virgolass, support our women and men in uniform Your analysis was very informative for me, perceptive and clear.

Virgolass, I remember reading that there were times William Lilly would tell clients to wait because it was not a good time to ask a question due to poorly configured planets in the heavens. Of course, Lilly knew this ahead of time. The day of your question was an eclipse. Perhaps that qualifies.

I confess that I do not know how to answer your question as asked, ?Does he still love me?? If you had asked about the success of a long distance love relationship then I would know how to begin by looking for an applying aspect or translation or such between the asc and des significators. Nevertheless, I looked at Venus, the love planet, and found that on the day of your question, besides being in Virgo the sign of her detriment, Venus is beginning to go under the Sun?s beams into invisibility. Maybe, especially with your natal stellium in Virgo, you simply felt extra sensitive to the loss of love?s visibility (lack of contact due to boot camp restrictions). I am not referring to the horary chart, only in general to the transit of Venus. Venus will remain under beams or combust until approximately mid December.

Maybe it was not a good time to ask a question. I wouldn?t lose sleep over it.

Alex

Sue, I know you did not mean to say that Scorpio is the sign of Mercury's detriment, nevertheless, its sounds that way. Help!

Thanks, Alex. I have no idea what I was thinking at that point. I think I was just noting to myself that Jupiter is in its detriment when it is in Mercury's sign of Virgo.

I confess that I do not know how to answer your question as asked, ?Does he still love me?? If you had asked about the success of a long distance love relationship then I would know how to begin by looking for an applying aspect or translation or such between the asc and des significators.

You would read it in exactly the same way. All 'love' questions have the ruler of the 1st house and the ruler of the 7th house as their significators. The querent then has the Moon as a co-significator. Some astrologers use Venus and Mars as secondary significators for the woman and man respectively but I don't generally. The thing to look for is an applying aspect between the significators. This indicates some sort of contact. If there is no contact then unfortunately there can be no event.

Maybe it was not a good time to ask a question.

Unfortunately, we cannot decide this after the fact. The right time to ask the question is when the heavens move you to do so. Getting an answer we do not like does not indicate that it was a bad time to ask the question. If we trust the heavens enough to ask the question in the first place then we have to trust the heavens that it will be the right answer whether we like it or not. This is the problem with horary. It works!

Sue, I agree that there is a lot of problems here, but I think having background on the relationship might give more context. He's in school and will be for at least 2 years, maybe 3. I'm going overseas. So we are "apart" and will be for some time with the agreement that we need to finish school and career goals before trying to live together or even in the same state. Neither of us wants to stand in the other's way and we both have a lot we wish to accomplish. So there is definately a need to focus on each other's own thing. And it's the stuff of which a lot of relationships are broken, and it will of course be very difficult to make it work, however, I saw the seventh house reciprocity with significators as a positive sign that this can work, it's just going to be damn hard...which is ok. things worth having usually are.

I'm not sure I can go along with telling someone "now is not a good time to ask a question." After all, the whole point of horary (I thought) was to try to get an honest anwer, not to manipulate circumstances until the planets line up just right (which they seldom do).

I tell people not to ask a question unless they're SURE they want to know the answer -- good or bad. I believe that an honest horary question is always asked in its own proper time, and that subconsciously (as Barbara Watters once said) we all know the answer and the chart just illustrates what we already subconsciously know to be true.

Hi all,

I'm not sure I can go along with telling someone "now is not a good time to ask a question." After all, the whole point of horary (I thought) was to try to get an honest anwer, not to manipulate circumstances until the planets line up just right

As much as I might like to take credit for saying ?now is not a good time to ask a question", that is not what I said. I said ?maybe? -- adding the maybe was based on, not my opinion but William Lilly.

My apologizes for paraphrasing Lilly without citing a page # in Christian Astrology ? didn?t see the forest for the trees there by seeming to imply ? heaven forbid! ? manipulating circumstances. Bad ju-ju for anyone who does that in horary questions?

Here is the aphorism to which I was referring, from CA, p. 300 where Lilly addresses ?The Significations of the seventh House?:

22. When in a Question wherein both the Fortunes and Infortunes are either weak or equally ill placed, promise no success upon that demand; deferre the Judgment untill the Heavens have a better Position.

Lilly clearly says there are certain instances where it is permissible to wait until the planets are better positioned, especially in matters concerning the 7th house. How this concerns people?s various beliefs about horary questions would be a good topic for the philosophy section.

In the chart for the question in this thread, the fortunes and infortunes fit Lilly?s aphorism. They are either weak, in detriment, fall and/or ill placed (reg). The fortunes: Venus in Virgo, sign of its fall plus accidental debility in 6th and Jupiter weak in Scorpio, plus accidental debility in 8th. The infortunes: Mars in Libra, sign of its detriment and Saturn in Leo, sign of its detriment, plus accidental debility in 6th.

Therefore, I stand firmly by and rock solid on my waffly ?maybe?. If Lilly had expanded on the details for this aphorism or given chart examples then I could be more positive. It would be helpful if we could find out.

Sue, On another note, thank you for your generous directions on how to read ?love the feeling? similarly to ?love the interactive relationship? in a horary chart.

Best,
Alex

"22. When in a Question wherein both the Fortunes and Infortunes are either weak or equally ill placed, promise no success upon that demand; deferre the Judgment untill the Heavens have a better Position."

I appreciate you setting me straight on this, but it seems to me that Lilly is literally saying to defer "Judgment" not asking the question, until the time is "better." In other words, the astrologer should wait until times are better before giving an answer to the question.

But you're right, trying to manipulate the circumstances of the question itself is bad juju, no matter how you slice it.

However, I'm sorry if I offended you... I didn't mean to at all!

Hi,

Voyagergirl, No offense taken. In fact, I appreciated your comments, also Sue?s, because they made me realize I had been too vague for a forum post.

it seems to me that Lilly is literally saying to defer "Judgment" not asking the question, until the time is "better." In other words, the astrologer should wait until times are better before giving an answer to the question.

I agree, Lilly does not say outright to defer asking the question. I was thinking of times when the fortunes and infortunes are in detriment or fall without triplicity. These times can be a few days or weeks, conceivably more if venus or mars are slow. Less if term or face are counted. A full time practicing astrologer would know this on the day of a question. They would know they could ?promise no success? and will have to ?deferre the Judgment untill the Heavens have a better Position.? But defer judgment on what chart? I don?t see how it could be the chart of the first question. This line of thinking led me to believe that an astrologer could say, based on sound astrological principle, that it was not a good time to ask a question and to wait ?untill the Heavens have a better Position.? It is somewhat of a dilemma. Maybe someone else perceives a possibility that I?m missing.

Alex