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subjectivity, objectivity and meeting places

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1826
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: subjectivity, objectivity and meeting places Reply with quote

lihin wrote:


Subjectivity is, methinks, symbolised by Selene, objectivity by Kronos, their meeting place by Hermes.

Best regards,

lihin


i associate that astro symbolism in the same way lihin..

however the real meeting place is in the person, as opposed to the symbolic meeting place astrologically. it has been my observation no person is capable of a perfect balance to be able to communicate objectively, but rather has to accept the limitations imposed thru the nature of human perception.. perhaps you see it differently?
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1381

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .

Last edited by ### on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1826
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi kirk,

be happy we are still actually talking astrology in the philosophy section!

talking via a typewriter is a funny thing.. all sorts of stuff gets left out and for the sake of simplicity i will often find myself agreeing with someone as opposed to wanting to try to articulate a different view that requires a more nuanced typewritten articulation..

i thought the sun was supposed to ''illuminate' things? LOL
i thought saturn was just the opposite? LOL!

this is the fun thing about astrology and symbolism.. one can play with this stuff a number of ways which is why i think astrology is really quite subjective in nature more then anything else. one might be able to be objective about certain things, but astrology i don't think so much..

in another way, i can agree with you.. indeed saturn has a connection to the 2 signs that oppose both the signs of the sun and moon so there does seem to be something to this idea, if one can go along with the idea of saturn as representing some type of objectivity.

here is my quick way of thinking of subjectivity and objectivity on a birth chart... midheaven - maximun objectivity - i.c. point - the opposite - maximum subjectivity.. the saturn/moon opposition seems to have a lot to do with this axis..

if you think of the position of the sun at noon verses midnight - perhaps this has something to do with this idea of mine, which again - is probably not my idea, but someone's who i have forgotten to remember..

lihin likes to talk philosophy, but he/she doesn't seem to want to talk in the philosophy section!
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1826
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi kirk,
i see you and i posted at the same time and i thus missed commenting on your 2nd post here..
i think this crazy thing happens in astrology where some folks try to make a connection between the astrology and people whether it be thru a chart, or the symbols on the chart.. not sure if that answers your question in my own way, or you will continue to be dis-satisfied and demand a more impressive position on all this similar to the one you probably already have!
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1381

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .

Last edited by ### on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1826
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can't speak for lihin, but for me its a general idea that falls down in the real world.. people are never going to reflect an ideal such as 100% objectivity.. maybe a planet ought not to be given that role either, but it is people giving the planets these symbolic meanings, more then it is about the planets so much.
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 470
Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Kronos, Helios and Selene Reply with quote

Good morning,

As it was deemed off topic, the original post in another thread has been deleted.

More seemingly than any other 'planet', Helios is subject to important differences of symbolic delineation amongst the various schools of astrology. In my humble experience, the delineations of the Sun indeed can characterise the schools in a nutshell. Post-Medieaval Western astrology and Renaissance Hermetic philosophy generally accord an overwhelming importance to Helios, symbolised by the shift to an heliocentric astronomic world view. At the other end of the spectrum one finds e. g. Indian astrology that classifies Helios as basically somewhat malefic, a delineation that makes sense to me given His potential to physically blind and burn. If Helios is afflicted He certainly may indicate rather 'pesky' forms of subjectivity, vainglory and the like.

The 'inner' Kronos, Selene and Hermes are indeed symbolised by the 'outer' Ones. Macrocosm and Microcosm, precisely what Hermetic philosophy is about.

Of course one can indefinitely extend the symbol sets, reassign different meanings to different symbols, etc. Here we are faced with limitations of the human mind, with necessary optimisation parameters. One can observe that in post-Renaissance times astrological attributes often have been stripped from planets visible to unaided human sight and reassigned to invisible or even hypothetical ones. Humans including genii can only handle a limited number of variables simultaneously. Even traditional astrology has a relatively large symbol set: 12 signs and their subdivisions into faces, bounds, etc., 4 elements, 3 modes, 7 planets, 12 houses, 4 aspects and conjunction, a few dozen bright fixed stars. Who can cope with more?

Best regards,

lihin
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