Which House for a Missing Telephone Number?

1
Hi all,

I wondered if I could get some help.

A few days ago I was given a telephone number from someone had felt very attracted to, and I gathered the feeling was mutual. I did not have my mobile phone with me at the time, so the number was written on a piece of paper which I have been unable to find since. I decided to set a horary this morning while looking for it and wondering desperately where it is. I would feel very disappointed not to be able to recover it.

My question is, what is the most appropriate house cusp to use in determining the significator of the object, the missing phone number?

As this is a missing object horary, then it would be my initial impression to look to the second, as, after all, this telephone number on a piece of paper is an object belonging to me, given into my possession. However, the problem I have here is that is this telephone number really my own possession, or is it more truly the property of the person concerned, given that it is my piece of paper, yet it is their telephone number?

I suppose the question boils down to which is the most immediate concern, the piece of paper bearing the number which was given to me: my property, my second cusp, or whether the greatest concern lies with recovering the number itself, which is properly the other persons property: their second cusp and so my eighth. I am unable to decide because in this case, one and the other are really both the same thing.

Do you see the nature of my confusion? It's baffling because the inquiry concerns a thing missing which belongs to me, yet which at the same time, ultimately belongs to the other. :? :x

Thanks.

Draco :wink:

2
Hi Draco
If no one coumes up with a good idea, you can at least look at where Mercury, the natural sig of communication, is placed, and search the area indicated by it. Its currently very weak state(peregrine, stationary Rx, though turning direct at the weekend, it'll take a while till it gains its normal speed), may also incicate your situation.
Good luck!

3
I think your best bet is to check the 3rd house. Even if you don't find the number this way, you could see another way of completing the interrupted communication, maybe a 3rd party, etc. Good luck. :'

4
I?m inclined to go with the 3rd house, since it?s a document. Rather than a possession that has its own value and use, it would be your written record of a phone number.

But if we say the 3rd house of documents is correct, what if a person owned a piece of paper that Elvis Presley gave to great-aunt Sarah, on which he gave her his phone number and signed his name? Is that just a document (3rd) or would it now qualify as a valuable possession (2nd), the sale of which could be a decent source of income? I?m not just playing here! I really don?t know for sure. I?m inclined to go with the 2nd and the idea of a valuable possession.

7
Draco - have you found it yet?

Kirk & Moondance7, I'd agree with your initial thoughts. I too would have thought it more 3rd house as it's a document - an invitation to call, the telephone number representing an address for communication.

Possession tends to confer a sense of ownership. Ownership of the number resides with the other party, and the paper is of little apparent value without the number.

To reverse the scenario, giving your telephone number to someone else as an address by which they can contact you doesn't transfer or assign any form of ownership to them of your address, even of a temporary nature. In the other person's hands it's an avenue by which they can facilitate contact with you, if they choose.

The loss of the number seems to me more akin to a telephone call/connection dropping out, or a lost letter/invitation.
"what if a person owned a piece of paper that Elvis Presley gave to great-aunt Sarah, on which he gave her his phone number and signed his name? Is that just a document (3rd) or would it now qualify as a valuable possession (2nd), the sale of which could be a decent source of income?"
I'd have thought of this scenario as 2nd house. The person inherited (8th) property from their great aunt, ownership and control of which now resides with them (2nd).

Maybe Deb might be able to help clear this up.

8
Personally I would look to the ruler of the 2nd house. The missing piece of paper is the issue here, and this is a "moveable possession". It doesn't have to be valuable to qualify as moveable, it just has to belong to you. I see this situation as being no different than losing a letter written upon which is the telephone number of your bank manager.
The important thing to remember is that the significator of the appropriate house should in some way describe the nature of the missing object, so in this case I would be looking for a connection between the second cusp, its sig', and Mercury - the natural significator of communication.

Also, don't overlook the position of the Moon, which Lilly describes as "the signifier of the thing lost" (C.A. p319).
====
Pete

9
I can?t see how information jotted down on a piece of paper qualifies as a personal possession. I can stand in my bedroom and say ?My bed, my socks, my lamp?, etc. They are useful, have some value, and can be insured. And they all have ?my? in common. There is something about them that makes me link myself to them: they are 2nd house objects next door to my Ascendant, or the Ascendant in horary that signifies me. They are ?mine?. But ?My piece of paper with a phone number on it? leaves my quite cold. I don?t really use the paper itself, but I do use the phone number on it. [However, the phone number itself isn?t even on the paper. Characters representing it are on the paper ? it?s simply a document containing information (3rd house).] I won?t bother insuring it, and I certainly won?t show it off to visitors as a useful object or prized possession ? unless it was the piece of paper given to great-aunt Sarah by Elvis Presley.

10
Lol! Seems like just about an even divide of ideas!
"The missing piece of paper is the issue here ..."
Ah, but is it? :D Would it still be an issue if the telephone number wasn't written on it? What's the search really for - the piece of paper, or the telephone number? And the telephone number is not Draco's moveable possession. Failing all else, there's always the telephone directory I s'pose, or casually revisiting the locality where you met and where the exchange took place.

Good point about the Moon.

11
I probably have at least the size of huge tree in my house in the equivalent of paper that I call "mine". no matter if it's your information on it or my thoughts or work notes........their mine.

and if lost, stolen or mislaid and I'm looking for it......it is still mine.

example: had daughter write list of her favorite musical groups.
approx. 3 months later she wanted it back. told her no, it was mine. She said she wrote it, therefore it was hers....and so on.
basically, she wanted to update it (but it took an hour of arguing to come to that point). after looking for it, could not find it.
after a week or so of lamenting and moaning about it, I did horary for HER question. "where is music list?".
she is 1st house querent.

eventually found it by turning chart to my position and going from there using rules for locating.

not often I can really dig it into to her , her memory being so much sharper then mine, I could not resist saying "see, even the heavens agree that the list is mine!"

12
Lol!

Well, it is said possession is nine tenths of the law ... and it appears this has now risen to 1-7 axis.

But the location of someone else's property under your roof doesn't automatically confer ownership to you ... eg. if I permit you access to my car (my moveable possession) that doesn't grant ownership of my car to you. You have temporary access by it being in your possession, not ownership.
For it to become part of your 'purse' something usually gets paid in return, eg. before receiving any benefit or entitlements from an inheritance there's death duties, taxes etc that get paid first. And if you inherit a lump sum, you then become liable for any tax applicable to maintain the benefit.

In this instance there was no transfer of ownership of the telephone number, wasn't paid for as one might for example pay for a book.

The telephone number simply representative of an address for communication, the same way other forms of communication, eg. letters (3rd) start with an address (an address 'heads' a letter).

In this 1-7 context I'd have thought 'my address' (1st) 'your address' (7th), my letters/communications which flow in-out from my address (3rd) your letters/communications (3rd from 7th = 9th).
If I lost other person's address, what happened to my connection with 7th; if I lost their letter/communication what happened to my connection with 9th; if I lost their moveable possession, what happened to my connection with 8th.

If you really did consider yourself the owner of your daughter's list, then I'd have thought the horary question would have been about "your" list, ie. "where is my list" ... you're 1st house, she's 7th.

But if your daughter asked the question about 'her' list of her favorite musical groups and you drew up the horary for "her" list assigning the 1st to her, then from what you describe it would seem "her" list was in her opponent's possession, under the roof of her opposition ... she left it behind her.

Your horary question appears to be about "her" list, not your list, as you'd already assigned ownership of the list & question to her from the get-go.

Therefore, I don't think it was really a question of ownership (mine or yours), ownership had already been assigned by granting her the 1st, it appears more a question of where her list of favorites might be located ... even if that happens to be in someone else's abode.

Tricky business, this!
Last edited by Tumbling Sphinx on Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.