i am reading Frawley book and need some assistance as to whether i am in the right track


my question is will my couple will come back together?
the question was asked at 23rd of June 2006 at 13:05, bristol, england


can I say that the amulten is venus!!!!


I am the querent, is given the ascendant and the Lord 1 which is venus, as the querent I have the moon as my cosignificator. Because this is a relationship question, i look at 7th house (mars) which is in conjuntion with saturne (2 malefiques) in leo MC. Venus is doing a conjunction with the moon on 8th house, however as the moon is at 5 orbes of House 9, it will be considered there.

is the moon void? As it is doing an aspect separating to venus and saturne. but if she leaves the sign of taurus to gemini by 13 degre will she make an aspect to the sun yes!!

There is no via combusta there


Venus is the ruler of libra and taurus (triplicity) if i consider the moon in 8th house she will be also in exaltation and triplicity. According to fawley a conjunction may imply a third party!!! can someone deliberate., If i consider this scenario than the moon is 9th house hence peregrine....
But this conjonction is separting, does it mean the love affair is past?


Mars in leo shows no reception (does it mean that the planete is in peregrine state) wandering around the issue or the motives are not directly clear and or my ex is acting unreasonably!!!. but with the conjunction with saturne in Leo which is also in detriment (is my question shows a hatred feeling or his on the part of my ex)

As the 2 malefiques are in leo, the sun in MC trigone jupiter retrograde in 2, is there something coming back to me (dealing with money!!!) hence part of the couple

the moon is separating from venus and and increasing to light to the sun
but then will be conjonct to mercure than saturne, but mars will be separating from saturne

will the moon which is placed at 5 degre 46 of gemini, can be combust to the sun (8 1/2 degre but she will be later when she moved by 13 degre) that it means that nothing will come to light!!!!) until the planet is separated..... but can't she be on conjonction as she changes sign

As there are no aspects to the nodes (conjunction or fall in the house of the relevant question) there are disregarded.

But what about mars opposition neptune in 5th house. does it show deceit and illusion....

if i take the meaning of the house

as the querent in 8th house shows sign of angish over the issue but the moon in 9th house, may denotes a long journey to gain some knowledge to my question.

What about the moon moving to the sun, then encountering mercure et then mars. that it mean that my road will meet new situations or new people.....


as you can see I need you experts to higlight my mistakes. I know I could not have it right in the first instance but I need to understand the methodology to built the puzzle

merci

I'll try to help a little with this. First, in the future, anyone posting a horary question with data, please list your preferred house system, otherwise many of us will assume Regiomontanus, which is what I did. It is also a good practice to list either the MC or ASC in order for someone to check that the chart we have is the same as yours.

can I say that the amulten is venus!!!!

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Venus is the ruler of the ASC and therefore represents the querent, or the person asking the question. Almuten or almutem, is the planet that has the most essential digity at a particular degree of the zodiac. It isn't often used in horary. For the record, the almuten of the ASC in this chart is Saturn.

Because this is a relationship question, iIlook at 7th house (mars) which is in conjuntion with saturne (2 malefiques) in leo MC. Venus is doing a conjunction with the moon on 8th house, however as the moon is at 5 orbes of House 9, it will be considered there.

When I cast this chart for 1:05 pm BST I get Venus 23 Taurus and Moon at 5 Gemini well within the 9th house. The 9th cusp is 20 Taurus using Regiomontanus.

John Frawley uses Lilly's methods for relationship questions. In addition to the house ruler, the man gets the Sun and the woman gets Venus. This case is a bit different since you are asking about a couple. Who are these people? Are they friends or relatives of yours.? You may not be using the correct house. For example, let's suppose you are asking about your brother and his wife. You would ask: will my brother and his wife get back together? Then you would use the 3rd house of siblings for your brother and the opposite house, the 9th (7th of the 3rd) for his wife and work that way.

is the moon void?

The Moon is at 5 Gemini. It would be a very rare instance that the Moon would be void at such an early degree. In this chart, the Moon is not void.
I get 0 Libra rising. Some people, Frawley is not one of them, would say the early rising degree means the chart cannot be read, as it indicates it is too soon to get an answer.

Lilly would argue that the Moon and Venus are not in conjunction because they are not in the same sign.

With that I'm going to stop since I think we are working from slightly differet charts, and we need to clarify who the couple is. Please check your data, give the house system you wish to use and post it again, and let us know who these people are.

Tom

hi tom

Thank for your help, let me clarify the situation. I am using the placidus system with astrocycle. the question is about my couple which I know the story, so it will be easy for me to confirm or question the horary astrology. I needed to start with something from the past....

As you are aware, i am just a novice but also eagerly excited to learn it.

You made a comment on 0 degre of libra rising, that the chart canno't be read!! But if I follow Frawley, it does not mention it. I am reading Lilly's at the moment and I could not see the references to it.

"I did find it now with Lilly's texts CA)

As regards to the conjunction of moon/venus, i was unable to find this reference with Frawley. Does it mean that I should disregard the conjunction and take it as a translating aspect

quote
Translation of light is where a planet separates from one significator - by conjunction or aspect - and immediately applies to another (whilst still within orb of the planet it is separating from)

but the moon will not do any transferred planet only venus do a translation of light to mercure

there is a collection of light from saturne to moon and mars

Quote
Where two planets, whether applying, separating or making no aspect to each other, both apply by to a third planet that "collects their light" and thereby establishes a relationship between the two.

venus is essentially dignified on its own sign

Quote
An application from the Sun or Moon to Venus, if both are well placed and strong in essential dignities, indicates the relationship will develop

the significators are not in water sign

the moon as the fatest planet may be inclined to develop the relationship

the relationship may be hindred by an interposing planet, in this case will the sun and mercure being considered as such

uranus has any aspects to the significators

I am posting the references to the chart below

ASC 10 D 47' LIBRA
II 05 D 59' SCORPIO
III 07 D 33' SAGITARIUS
FC 14 D 04' CAPRICORNE
V 19 D 19' AQUARIUS
VI 18 D 14' PISCES
DS 10 D 47' ARIES
VIII 5 D 59' TAURUS
IX 7 D 33' GEMINI
MC 14 D 04 CANCER
XI 19 D 19' LEO
XII 18 D 14' VIRGO

PLANETS

SUN 01 D 56' O4" CANCER
MOON 05 D 46' 41" GEMINI
MERCURY 26 D 40' CANCER
VENUS 29 D 26' TAURUS
MARS 11 D 59' LEO
JUPITER 09 D 15'R SCORPIO
SATURNE 09 D 22' LEO
URANUS 14 D 43'R PISCES
NEPTUNE 19 D 34'R AQUARIUS
PLUTO 26 D 16'R SAGITARIUS
NN 29 D 42' PISCES
SN 29 D 42' VIRGO
FORTUNA 14 D 37' VIRGO


I did not use the other fixed stars at the present time due to my lack of knowledge


when to recognise when there is no answer or the chart is clouded!!!

When I was a kid I played the music chairs (i.e 5 chairs for 6 people when the music stop, everyone need to sit down, the one who is still standing is eliminated) well with horary astrology, i have more characters coming in the play


PS if you see any strange word it may be written in french or any other languages than english!!!!!

this message will be amended or words added progressively when reading my books (LIGHTS!!!!!)

have a nice day[/url]

Hi,

the question is about my couple which I know the story, so it will be easy for me to confirm or question the horary astrology.

I"m sorry, but I don't know what you mean by "my couple." If you'd rather not divulge the information, that's OK, but I'll be forced to make general and perhaps incorrect statements.

You made a comment on 0 degre of libra rising, that the chart canno't be read!! But if I follow Frawley, it does not mention it.

Yes, as I mentioned John Frawley believes all charts can be read. What I was referring to are the so-called "considerations before judgment." These are conditions in the chart that many astrolgoers believe are indications that the chart cannot be read as it cannot provide a correct answer. One of those considerations is if the first three degrees of a sign are on the ASC. Some say that this indicates it is too soon to ask the question, and perhaps the querent should wait a while before asking again.

Frawley is not one of those. He believes the considerations may well be telling the astrologer something, but that all charts can be read. As he notes, the saying is "as above, so below: not "as above, so below every now and then."

If you are going to follow Frawley, then this chart can be read.

As regards to the conjunction of moon/venus, i was unable to find this reference with Frawley. Does it mean that I should disregard the conjunction and take it as a translating aspect

Again, if you are going to follow John Frawley then you would not use it. Actually, even for astrolgoers who do use out of sign aspects, this one seems pretty far apart. In fact at nearly six degrees separation, Frawley wouldn't use it if they were in the same sign. Aspects in horary aren't used the same way they are in natal astrology. Although you should always be aware of them.

only venus do a translation of light to mercure

You won't find everything in every chart. It is always good to check for things like translation of light even if it may not be relevant all the time. Since Venus is lady of the ASC, I'd look at that translation of light, and see if it fits the story.

I am posting the references to the chart below

System placidus

This is why it is important to note the hosue system you use when asking a question. Regiomontanus produces a different 9th house cusp and that seems to play a role in this question.

As for "your couple," Here is what to look for. Correctly locate which house represents one of the parties. For example if it is your friend then use the 11th. If it is your sister, use the 3rd. The opposite house will represent the other member of the couple. Look at the rulers. Are they applying to an aspect with no interference from other planets? Are they in mutual reception? Either of these things are strong testimonies that they will get together. Also look at the Sun for the man and Venus for the woman. See if they are coming together with each other or with one of the other planets.

If there are not receptions, and no aspects or translations of light to help, then the answer is, "no."

Good luck

Tom

Hi tom

I"m sorry, but I don't know what you mean by "my couple." If you'd rather not divulge the information, that's OK, but I'll be forced to make general and perhaps incorrect statements.

I am talking about my ex partner/concubin!! hence the quesited Lord7 (mars)/Sun and me as Lord 1 (venus)/Moon.


however as references to your comments:

This is why it is important to note the hosue system you use when asking a question. Regiomontanus produces a different 9th house cusp and that seems to play a role in this question.

I use the placidus system then the ascendant is 10 degre and 47' Libra thereby not first or last 3 degre of the sign. However, I am becoming confused when I use 13:05 and cast the chart with astro link. I get the same information as you Tom. I use astrocycle at home unless my clock is inaccurate with my home pc... Need to check hence may be the chart can't be answered

In fact at nearly six degrees separation, Frawley wouldn't use it if they were in the same sign. Aspects in horary aren't used the same way they are in natal astrology. Although you should always be aware of them.

So in this case would you state that the moon is separating from venus, past relationship, end of anguish of fear as venus is 8 house and dignify or money from ex-partner!!!

the only aspects between significators is a collection of light Saturne trine to Moon and conjunct Mars

but I read that mars/saturne are malefic in Leo

I quoted previously that an application from the sun or moon to venus well aspected/and strong in dignities indicates the relationship will develop

well after reading since this morning, i change my mind, as there is no application if we do not consider the conjunction of moon/venus

the relationship may be hindred by an interposing planet well should I consider saturne? Well Mars applies to saturne conjunction in the same sign but it is separating hence moving on. What about Mercury and sun as interposing planetes as the moon will encounter them. Mercury will sextile venus and sun will trigone jupiter retrograde should I also take them into account?

Does it mean that the moon will be combust when approaching the sun but she will be in her dignity in cancer? is me as the querent will meet someone on my way (mercure sextile venus)

Can we talk about combustion when the moon will enter 8 degre orbs of the sun



mars/saturne does an opposition to neptune in 5th house (illusion, deception, flirtation on the part of the quesited

moon is moving faster to mars

and then everyhting is confusing. I try to avoid to read it as a natal astrology and find it little bit difficult to build the story. I know my past so I do not want to influence my knowledge to the stars but vice versa.

That why I need some experts to pinpoint the starting key than I will follow the steps to build and understand on how to read the chart, recognise the characters, their acts and their epilogue


it is becoming so frustrating not to be able yet to pinpoint the starting of the play. I have read for last 3 days to have been able to bring my understanding to you but still hanging there

I can recognise all elements and trace them to deb's examples mentioned in her course. However when i try to answer my cast question, i am drowning, not too sure whether i give too much importance to the quesited or the querent, not too sure as to whether those aspects are importants or i mixed them to a natal astrology

Who said that the french confuse pigeon to Duck!!!!

thanks tom










[/quote

I read a text from Dariot that if the moon entered gemini, a period of unfortunate events will ensue?

I don't have the book you mention. Is it 'Judgement of the Stars'?

Before we get to Gemini its important to go back to the basics. The most difficult signs for the Moon are Scorpio (its fall) and Capricorn (its detriment). If the Moon is in these signs we can refer to it as debilitated by essential dignity.

I don't know about Dariot but I think Morinus in his Cabal of the Houses refers to Gemini as a weak sign for the Moon on the basis that it is twelve signs forward from the sign of its rulership (Cancer). Traditionally, the twelfth house is the most unfortunate.

If you are using Ptolemy's system of essential dignities (there are others)
you would find that the Moon is also always quite weak in the folllowing signs: Gemini, Aries, Leo and Pisces. The Moon is what we call peregrine in these signs. This means it lacks essential dignity. I guess you could argue as 12 signs on from the sign of its exaltation ( Taurus) why Aries is a relatively weak sign for the Moon too. I don't know about the rest. Of course the Moon can also be weak in the other signs if it doesn't fall within other dignities. You really need to check the table of planetary dignities to see what degree the Moon is in.

However the weakness of lacking essential dignity does not compare to the debilitated (very weak) position of the Moon in Scorpio or Capricorn.

You should also keep in mind other crucial factors (so called accidental dignities) that can help or hinder the expression of a planet -house position, aspects, mutual reception, proximity to a fixed star etc.
Frawley explains all this very clearly in his book. In horary, house position of any planet is very important. So as always with astrology you can't make a definitive judgement with one single factor of the chart.

really appreciated to provide me your support, i read this comment with this french horary astrologer, denis laboure well knowned in France. At the moment, I am gathering lots of information to build my confidence in dealing with cast question.....

and it is so frustrating to try and try and try. But I decided to take a course, i am too obscessed to give up so early....

but I was reading deb comments about horary astrology and she mentionned an arabic named person that had also used horary astrology.

i have ordered more books to investigate and built my confidence

it is a wonderfull art seeming more like just in time prevision but the knowledge needs to be build progressively such as tea leafs prediction

Actually, I should have some closeness as my deceased dad was a touareg and was using the stars to predict their days to days in their travelling

million de merci mark C

you may be right that my cast chart is too early to answer, i went back to a french site that I have asked as to whether I will met my soulmate?

and the chart seems responding to my situation at this time

the question was asked on 14 March 2006 at 18:11, bristol, england

so I am using it to work the question

as I am unsure whether the present chart is not flawless, as I can't see any pre-conditions to accept it or disregard it, of course depending on the master of horary you follow

see you later