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Lord of Geniture in Your Chart?
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Which Planet is Lord of Your Chart?
Saturn
32%
 32% 
Jupiter
18%
 18% 
Mars
11%
 11% 
Sun
4%
 4% 
Venus
9%
 9% 
Mercury
13%
 13% 
Moon
9%
 9% 

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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3207
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:

Quote:
LOG is more likely to describe someone's personality and appearance/health/spirit, etc., right?


Not really. The "personality*" appearance and health etc are shown by the Ascendant, it's ruler and aspects to it. The Log shows our strengths. Although Tanit raises a good point: the discussion on this thread has centered on how to find the Lord of the Geniture, not so much what to do with it once we've done that. Frawley mad an observation once that the Asc is the life we are given and the Lord of the Geniture is the life we want. In other words it is the best of us and therefore is to be consciously used not submitted to. For most of us if it "kicks in" at all, it does so later in the life after we, more or less, have our act together. But why wait? At least that's Frawley's point.

I know I refer to George Patton's chart a lot, but it is so damn useful that one more time won't hurt. The Lord of the geniture for "Old Blood and Guts" is (ready?) Venus. Venus is in the 7th house of war (Placidus cusps) in the exaltation of Mars, Capricorn. She is in her own triplicity and that makes her the strongest planet in his chart. The Moon is also in Capricorn, and is the night ruler of earth (his is a night chart), but is in detriment and the 8th house . Now his MC is 0 Pisces. Venus moved by progression to Pisces the sign of her exaltation at about the time of his greatest military successes, and it was later in his life as shortly after the war in Europe ended, Patton was dead at age 60. You didn't think one of the best field generals in WWII got in touch with his inner Venus, did you?

The best use of the LoG is learning what we're good at and applying that to our lives. It is most decidedly a non-fatalistic concept. Patton's "Blood and Guts" reputation, it was a name he hated and no one used it to his face, is more likely to be blamed on an angular Mars in mutual reception with his Mercury ASC ruler. Mars is the significator of the manners in his chart.

Having two or more legitimate candidates for LoG is a problem that, to my knowledge is not addressed in the literature. Since we're choosing the LoG to consciously work with, then all we have to do is pick one. If there is an embarrassment of riches and we use the LoG for temperament, it is possible it could shift the balance, but even so it is one item of several. Or use Dorian Greenbaum's method. She doesn't use the LoG to determine temperament.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

Quote:
I know I refer to George Patton's chart a lot, but it is so damn useful that one more time won't hurt. The Lord of the geniture for "Old Blood and Guts" is (ready?) Venus.


Our posts were quite close so you might have missed I just gave the link to your article on Patton. Smile

Its off the topic of LOG but I find it interesting Patton has the lot of Fortune in Aries disposited by an angular Mars while his lot of Spirit is in Leo disposited by his Sun in Scorpio.

Mark
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Tom
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Mark I did miss it and I posted and "ran." Thanks for the link and mentioning it. I ought to go and re-read what I wrote. I might have changed my mind about a few things. Happy New Year!!
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

Sorry. What kind of Scotsman am I? Happy New Year to you too! Very Happy

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1804
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark, i now have an embarrassing amount of links to read too, lol... thanks for that though.. i really appreciate you kindness.

tom -i like greenbaums temperament book.. using that method i get at least 3 options to chose from as well, lol..
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1804
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay - i read those links and got some interesting insight into the many ways one can arrive at the log..

i liked the questions and interaction in the messages on the altair astrology site and enjoyed the articles.. i especially liked the idea that a planet in it's fall isn't as bad as in detriment and peregrine.. that was interesting to read, and that it can be considered for the log.

i enjoyed the article by tom on patton and was happy to see tom using pluto in the primary directions, after having read a thread on pluto here a few weeks ago.. mind you the article was from 2004 which is a long time ago i suppose..

i found the link to robert hands site stimulating too for the very reason no one agrees and that there is no one definitive system for arriving at the log. i liked his questions at the beginning of the link "Is the strength that Saturn gets by being conjunct the Ascendant the same kind of strength that it gets by being in Capricorn, Aquarius, or Libra? I think that most would agree that these are not the same kind of strengths, but I also think that few of us could pin down exactly what the differences are."

i think these are really good questions and there are sometimes no easy answers.. thanks for providing those links..

using the new or full moon before birth, and or the solar eclipse before birth is also an interesting addition to efforts to define the log.. using this i find myself tossing back and forth between venus and mars.. i still think mars, but venus came up strongly using these tools for arriving at the log..

thanks for the astro exercise here..
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Tom
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was shocked that I used Pluto. However, the other three planets when used in a similar fashion as fixed stars are used, does seem valid and fixed stars are directed.

The use of Venus does demonstrate how the influence of progressed planets unfolds more slowly over time than, say, a transit might. Note, too that Venus in Patton's chart is horribly afflicted by the opposition from Saturn in Cancer. Nothing came easy for him.
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
Quote:
I was shocked that I used Pluto.


So was I. Laughing

Still it was nearly 8 years ago. Always reserve the right to change your mind I say.

Mark
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Tom
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have done it to be polite. Tongue Out
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Lillith



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 11

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my LoG is Venus and Venus is 10 th house in my chart.Venus is conjucted with my Mc.But it means my work will be about to fashion,beauty or art.It is hard to understand what it means exactly?Could you help me?What does LoG show us?
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Lord of the Geniture (LoG) shows us anything, it shows our best potential. It is the strongest planet in the chart that can act (Lilly). If we have one particularly strong planet in our chart, that is where our greatest strengths lie, and what we can best put to use for our own benefit.

John Frawley used a phrase I like that deserves more examination that its ever received (from memory): The Lord of the Geniture shows us the life we want rather than the life were given which is shown by the lord of the ASC." That's not an exact quote but the idea is correctly explained.

The Lord of the ASC can be weak or strong, well placed or poorly placed and it can even be the LoG. But the ruler of the ASC, if Frawley is right, is where we go on autopilot. This may be very good if it is well placed and the rest of the chart agrees. But it may be anything else,too form poor to middling.

The LoG requires work. If it shows some kind of talent for creativity and we think we have no creative talent, we will have to work at it to develop it. The chart says the potential is there. Working at it indicates we will fail now and again. That is just the human experience, but if the words "promise of the chart" mean anything, eventually we will succeed to a greater or lesser extent.

The beauty of using the Log is that it puts into practice what we all say by rote, that we can overcome the chart with free will. We need to use our free will in order to make the most of the LoG to obtain the life we want.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Location: Delhi

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked

Jupiter in tropical and Venus in sidereal.

Has anyone tried out the difference between the sidereal vs tropical LOG.
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Edith



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn on the ASC; it has Dorothean triplicity (participating), and that's about as good as it gets. You should see the rest of the planets.

However if I was a sidereal girl I'd get Venus in Pisces in the 4th. I'm sorely tempted to switch.
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RegulusAstrology



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 132
Location: USA

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please see this post on my recent research on the Victor of the chart which is equivalent terminology to Lilly's Lord of the Geniture.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6727

The study includes 40 examples.
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Pisces_girl



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Europe

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two candidates for Lord of Geniture in my chart:

- Moon in Cancer in the 11th, conjunct Sirius and most elevated planet in the chart
- Saturn in Capricorn in the 4th (5th if whole sign) is final dispositor of everything but the Moon

How to know which one is the LoG? Could there be two lords?
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