Lord of Geniture in Your Chart?

MarkLeoMoon · Joined: 28 Nov 2011 Posts: 7 Location: Florida, USA

Found that Saturn (Cap) in the 4th is my LoG.

Am finding the traditional approach to chart interpretation to be very interesting and fruitful.

So much history and evolution that can be studied in detail. Wish I had more time in the day.
Very Happy

Tom · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject:

There are charts where there is no really good choice for the Lord of the Geniture, but in that case we can default to the ruler of the ASC if it is no worse than anything else in the chart. What is the default option when there are two good choices? What might be an embarrassment of riches can actually be problematic when using the LoG to determine temperament or directing it for predictions.

Does anyone using this technique have a rule for this situation?

Yuriy · Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 376

PFN · Joined: 28 Dec 2008 Posts: 393 Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

My case could be called curious.

I have 3 very strong planets by essential dignity:

Moon in exaltation, Mercury in Virgo, Jupiter in Sagitarius.

But in my opinion, my lord of geniture is Mars ^_^.

My Moon is in aversion to the risign sign, on the II house. Jupiter is in the 9th sign, in the VIII house, but on a degree distant from the ascending one.

Venus has a lot of dominion over planets in terms of the classical measuremente of the LoG, but Mars comes close and is the ruler of the ascendant. Saturn is effective in my chart indirectly only.

Theoretically, the least important/likely planet to produce an astrologer would be Mars. Yet, here I am.
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Paulo Felipe Noronha

Tom · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject:

I suppose we need to define LoG and I forgot this thread originated 5 years ago. Lilly defines it, more or less, as the strongest planet in a chart by essential dignity that can act. That means it needs enough accidental dignity to put it in play. For example a planet in triplicity in the 10th might be preferable to a planet in domicile in the 12th. The idea is to pick a strong active planet.

I think Ibn Ezra uses the almutem as the LoG. Almutem is different in that a weak planet that has a great deal of dignity in the ASC degree could be chosen. That surely is indicative of something, but the LoG seems to be less about prediction than it is about potential. The best use of it is made when the native consciously tries to use it. I don't see the value in using a weak planet just because it has lots of dignity in the ASC. It's like hoping for the best results by putting your worst traits on display.

There is a good argument to be made that reversing your worst traits will lead to good things, but using your best traits seems a bit easier and smarter as it will come more naturally.

Tanit · Joined: 01 Aug 2008 Posts: 1118 Location: California, USA

Dolly · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 152

Hi

Would someone kindly tell me the Lord of the Geniture in my chart please

Birth date 6 June 1950
Time 5:10 am
Oxford
UK

British summer time in operation minus 1 hour ascendant Gemini

Thanks
Dolly

Konrad · Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 668

I'd say Jupiter in the 10th place, Dolly, since Venus is in aversion to the Asc and cadent.

Dolly · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 152

Hi Konrad

Thanks for your reply

Dolly

james_m · Joined: 05 Dec 2011 Posts: 2540 Location: vancouver island

i still don't get the difference between log and almuten...

Mark · Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:14 am Post subject:

Tanit · Joined: 01 Aug 2008 Posts: 1118 Location: California, USA

Sandstone -

I would say your Venus would be LoG if it weren't for Algol. Venus is in house dignity, angular on the DSC, in sect, occidental, direct, although a tad slow. Average speed of Venus is 1°12' and yours is 1°03. Your Sun is a good candidate, but it's out of sect. It's swift, in the 5th and in exaltation, but I'd vote for Mars. It's swift, oriental, in sect (although halb), in exaltation, face and term, and in the 2nd (tied with Sun there anyway). So Mars is my vote. I didn't use a computer program or anything - just in my head - so I could be wrong.

james_m · Joined: 05 Dec 2011 Posts: 2540 Location: vancouver island

thanks mark.. on the basis of what i read, i am going to go with mars as my log then.. mars also happens to be my almuten..

edit - hey thanks for your take on my chart tanit! i go with a type of whole sign which might make it all different too.. i think the lilly thing was done with hard edges on the houses...

tanit - depends on house systems, it seems to me.. i have mars in the 3rd by the system i use.. sun in 6th.. i know it is crazy, but i am trying it on for size at present..

Mark · Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject:

I must say Sandstone has an embarrassment of available choices here. Very Happy

What about charts with no dignified planets or even debilitated planets but strong by accidental dignity. Can they be LOG? Some traditional authorities said yes.

Here are an interesting couple of articles discussing the practical application of the method of the German astrologer Johannes Schöner (1477- 1547)

http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/looking-for-the-lord-of-the-geniture/

http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/ernest-hemingways-lord-of-the-geniture-or-the-old-man-and-the-sea/

Plus here is an article from our very own Tom looking at the chart of General Patton which presents similar difficulties in terms of lack of planets with essential dignity:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/patton.html

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly

Mark · Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject:

I also found this article by Robert Hand which compares the dignity scoring systems of several medieval astrologers. Nice to see where they agree and differ with the commonly used system of Lilly.

http://www.arhatmedia.com/alldign.htm

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly