We moved, highly traumatic experience, and in the process I lost my son's retainers (i.e. braces). I looked everywhere, not a trace. $400 to replace, a terrible, terrible thing. On Nov 11, 2005, I asked the question:
"Where are his retainers?"
11:27 am, 74W26 40N51
21 deg 19 minutes Capricorn rising.
I went to the 5th, and then 2nd from the 5th for his retainers.
My son is Venus, and his retainers are Mercury.
I am Saturn; since I'm the one doing most of the searching, I was looking for some aspect between Saturn and Mercury. Interestingly, Mercury is coming to a trine with Saturn - BUT, just before it could perfect, Mercury went retrograde. And the Moon is void of course. I followed the rules of "Where is it?", article by Deb, and found no other indications of recovery.
That day I decided to disregard the horary and go back to my old house anyway. There was a chance that the retainers may have fallen out in the driveway. I looked everywhere but no luck. I thought this was my last chance to find them, so I finally accepted that they were gone.
I called the dentist and asked for replacements to be made.
On Nov 23rd, my daughter was going through my son's book bag and said "I found his retainers". They were inside the book bag all along.
I called the dentist; unfortunately, the order had gone in, but we only have to pay $200, which isn't so bad.
But I'm puzzled about this horary, can anyone see any indicatios of recovery at all?
Thanks.

The more I look at them, lost item charts have to be hardest to solve. A friend of mine who is a professional astrologer tells me that he only charges half price for lost items. He also says that they are about the only charts where once you find them, and you look back at the chart, the chart seems to be wrong.

I had a lost item chart on this forum back in the end of April where a friend's glasses were lost and the chart seemed to show no chance of recovery. But the last contact made was to Venus in Taurus, so we all assumed that a person signified by Venus had misplaced them. But again, there were no signs of recovery. About two weeks later he found them in the laundry. They were in the pockets of a pair of pants he wore the day he lost them. It made sense, with 20-20 hindsight. Venus = clothing, in a fixed sign = the part of the clothing that secures or holds onto things.

With all apologies to Deb, who always says to first look to see if there are signs of recovery, I wouldn't always rely on that. I'd look to see the last contact made to the significator of the lost item, and see if that gives you a clue as to where the lost item is. This makes sense because if you know what happened to the lost item, then that will lead you to where it is. Sometimes.

On this site in article:http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wit.html

I found:
Arguments for Recovery :

*The Moon aspecting a fortune shows the item is in the safe keeping of an honest person who will return it. (Especially if the fortune also aspects the ascendant or asc-ruler.)

*The Moon or 2nd-ruler angular.

All of these we have in your chart if we look son's 5 house as first. Moon is in his 10H, angular, applaying to POF, and Moon is ruler of his 3house (his sister), so his sister will find it. Ruler of his 2nd is angular in his 7H.

I've always wondered if when we turn the houses, whether some of the formerly non-angular houses become angular or not, and my own thoughts are that they don't. This isn't something that I have read, it's just something that makes sense to me, so I am totally open to know what professionals and authors have said about this. So I wouldn't say that the radical 2nd house becomes angular when we turn this chart. Turning the chart may shift the house meanings, but angularity is something that is based so strongly in the physical world, the sky as we see it, that I don't think it can be turned.

And Taurus7 I got your son to be Mercury, as it's the 5th house ruler in the chart I did.

If we take the Moon as the retainer, then that applying contact with the Part of Fortune could show recovery, but strictly speaking, the POF is not a fortunate, but I don't think that matters here.

Other than that, I am stuck on this chart. I even tossed around the idea that we could use your radical 2nd house as the retainer, because really you bought it, you were going to have to pay to replace it, and even legally speaking it belongs to you, as I don't think a child owns something that his parents provide for him. But that path got me nowhere.

These charts are much harder to do than I first thought.

The Sun and Moon are in trine with the Sun prominent on the midheaven - a strong argument of discovery. The Moon in the radical 2nd suggests the goods are in the possession of the owner and Jupiter (the radical 2nd house ruler and dispositor of Moon and Mercury) is in a partile trine to the 2nd house cusp indicating recovery. Jupiter is in the radical 9th suggesting books (although some might see its turned position from the 5th points connecting to bags). The Moon is also applying to a sextile of Fortuna. Overall I think there are good indications of recovery.

I think angularity is fixed to the radical chart too, and I tend to go by radical signification unless it makes sense to do otherwise. Lilly shows agreement with this on p.192 where he concludes his treatment on ?chart turning? by the often overlooked comment:

?You must understand that although every house hath his sixth, eighth house and twelfth house, yet in everyone quesited after, the sixth house of the figure shall signify his infirmity, the eighth his death, the twelfth his imprisonment?.

What?s interesting is the applying inconjunct between the Moon and Jupiter, ruler of the 2nd. This is within orb but perfects as the Moon changes signs (house move?). Although the chart indicates recovery this aspect may be more relevant to the fact that the find didn?t eliminate expense. Or maybe it means nothing at all, but it?s also interesting that Mercury, your 8th ruler, applies to Saturn ? you - but turns retrograde just before it perfects, so there was a removal of some of the cost, but not all of it.

Well, I know I'm in the minority here, but when I see a VOC moon in a lost item chart (Unless the Moon is unfortunate or in the 29th degree of Taurus -- the Weeping Sisters) I actually take that as a sign not to worry -- the item will turn up.

This past summer both of my dogs got lost and I was terribly worried. I set a chart asking if they'd return safely and the Moon in Leo was VOC.

I decided the universe was telling me "don't worry nothing will come of it," and that turned out to be the case. Within the week, both dogs were found -- unharmed -- though one was at the pound.

But I totally agree with Deb's analysis: in this chart there are many indications of the lost item turning up. Not only that if the Moon is applying to a positive aspect with the POF, in my book, it negates any "bad" effect of the moon being VOC. (What I mean to say is some astrologers say that the Moon is actually NOT VOC if it aspects the POF -- and the few instances where I've seen charts like that, it turned out to be true.)

Deb:

The Sun and Moon are in trine with the Sun prominent on the midheaven - a strong argument of discovery. The Moon in the radical 2nd suggests the goods are in the possession of the owner and Jupiter (the radical 2nd house ruler and dispositor of Moon and Mercury) is in a partile trine to the 2nd house cusp indicating recovery. Jupiter Overall I think there are good indications of recovery.
....

Oh, that's brilliant! I guess I didn't read your article as closely as I should have!!......der...
It just goes to show how totally retarded we can be sometimes (..grin) - I even missed that my son is ruled by Mercury and not Venus...gawd!!

What?s interesting is the applying inconjunct between the Moon and Jupiter, ruler of the 2nd. This is within orb but perfects as the Moon changes signs (house move?). Although the chart indicates recovery this aspect may be more relevant to the fact that the find didn?t eliminate expense.

Wow! Also, at the time, I think the directionals indicated that the retainers were North-West (although I could be totally wrong again...brain just not functioning normally since the move..) and my new house is North-West of where I asked the question. My old house was South East.

Thanks to all.

This all looks really good in hindsight, but I'm sure I wouldn't have seen any of this.

I do have some problem with that separating Sun-Moon trine as a sign of recovery. Sure it's still within orb, but I wouldn't have seen it as a sign of future recovery, but as a sign of something happening in the past. How do we deal with that?

If the out of sign aspect shows the retainer will be found once there is a change, then wouldn't the fact that it's an inconjunct show that Taurus7 and the retainer are separated, not connected? I don't use the inconjunct myself, but I thought it shows things out of sorts, out of contact.

MarkF wrote: I do have some problem with that separating Sun-Moon trine as a sign of recovery.

Me too.
MarkF thanks for your comments about angular houses.

In some chart topics, and this is one of them, the natural symbolism of the chart is just as important as the particular symbolism: it?s especially important to consider the influences upon the angles.

The Sun was anciently known as ?the revealer of all things?. When it is powerfully positioned on the midheaven it exposes secrets and brings discoveries. This is especially so when it is in a trine to the Moon, whether that trine has just passed perfection or not. Both the Sun and Moon are strengthened by this.

Look at how many of the major arguments for recovery relate to the Sun and Moon aspecting each other, contacts to angles, and relationships to the 2nd house. Amongst them we have:

? The Sun and Moon aspecting each other by any aspect out of angles.

? The Sun and Moon aspecting each other or the cusp of the 2nd house by trine.

? The Moon or 2nd-ruler angular.

We have the Sun and Moon aspecting each other by trine, with the Sun angular on the midheaven and the Moon in the 2nd. We also have the 2nd ruler in trine to the 2nd house cusp and some other positive points such as the Moon applying to a positive aspect of fortuna. That gives a strong potential for recovery.

We have none of the major arguments against recovery except this:

? The Moon or 2nd-ruler cadent or far from the querent's significator.

Which I don?t think is too worrying considering the positive arguments we have. In addition, the Moon separating from its own dispositor shows loss, but application to its dispositor shows recovery. That?s why I think the Moon being within orb of its next aspect (to Jupiter its dispositor) is interesting, because it?s over a sign boundary and inconjunct, perhaps reflecting that we got a recovery but not a timely one. Maybe. Or maybe we should just accept that as a VOC Moon. Either way the chart was dismissed.

BTW, I just noticed Jupiter is conjunct the part of daughters (Asc+Venus-Moon).

BTW, I just noticed Jupiter is conjunct the part of daughters (Asc+Venus-Moon).

Oh how cute!! That would have to be my favorite part of all...