Question Pertaining to Relationships

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Hi Everyone,
This is my first time posting a question & am a complete beginner in Horary. Have been reading this Forum for weeks &find it very informative -also studying Horary. Finally plucked up the courage to ask something. :-?
Question is - I did a chart for a relationship --"WILL J MOVE IN WITH M- his new Girlfriend? IF HE DOES WILL RELATIONSHIP LAST?" Looking at The 1st House- me asking the Question - Taur on cusp -7th H Scorp on cusp - 4th H for move -Canc on cusp.Ven in Cap 19.49 -Mars ret in Taur 9.18 -Moon in Lib 16.32. Moon is coming up to a square with Venus- less than 3 deg away, also moon is via combusta -not good- Also in 4th H Sat is ret in Leo. Also Mars ret is squaring Sat ret & Mars is in 12 th H. Could be hidden factors or motives to this move- maybe? I would think everything is against this move or he is going to change his mind Does any of this make sense to any of you clever people out there?
The next part- Will the rel last? Mars ret 12 th H in Taur - Ven Cap 9th H( J is planning on moving about 50 miles away) In mutual recep in trine about 9 deg away from Ven but the fact that Mars is ret would change the judgement to no --?? If anyone wants calc 27th Nov 2005 UK 15.08 GMT - Long 0W08 Lat 50N50 Thanks a lot - will be delighted if anyone can help me - I notice that Mercury is also ret in 7th H with no aspects to anything also Sun in 7th H coming up to a sextile with Nep-- Looking at all these factors I would say NO. - anyone agree?

Relationship question

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How interesting: I was about to post a question that is very similar about two dear friends of mine.

I always have reservations when Mercury is Rx. Usually it means someone changes his or her mind.

However, since you're asking this question about your friend, you need to turn the chart so that the radical 11th house (your friend) becomes the 1st and the 7th from that house (the radical 5th) is your friend's house of marriage.

Since you said Taurus is rising, I'm guessing (don't have the chart in front of me) that Jupiter (Pisces) rules the 11th (your friend's 1st.) If that's the case, now study the aspects between Jupiter and Mercury. If one of the significators is ruled by a Rx planet, that generally means that person is at a disadvantage someone or is ill or weak. It doesn't bode well for a significator to be Rx unless it's a situation where the couple is REuniting.

I'm glad that the chart has the Moon in the Via Combusta only because it gives me a chance to see if the theory that the "Fiery Way" placement indeed wreaks havoc. (Some astrolgers say yes, others pay little attention to the Moon here.) I'm trying to quantify the data!

But with Mercury Rx, I think you can safely predict it won't last...

Question Pertaining to Relationships

3
Hi Voyagergirl,

Thanks alot for replying. The J is an EX - that is why I used 7th House for his new relationship. Third one this year! Therefore if I turned chart - his house of marriage would be 1st House?

If I use 11th House as his 1st - aquarius is on cusp- sinificator Sat Rx in 4th H near 5th H. Then his house of marriage would have Leo on cusp. Making sun sextile Nep. Sun in 7th H as is Mer Rx (placidus) Nep just into 11th H.

Now I am confused as to how to read it?

Can anyone help, many thanks.

4
You are the ASC ruler Venus, in Capricorn in the 10th house. Your ex is the 7th house ruler, Mars in Taurus in the 12th house. Venus exalts Mars, so even though you may be his ex, you still have strong feeling for him. In fact, Venus also is in the terms and face of Mars, so you have quite a bit of feelings for him. I?ve heard that exaltation often shows a kind of lack of clarity on the part of the one doing the exalting, so maybe you don?t see him as clearly as you should.

However, Venus is also in its own triplicity and is angular, in the 10th house, so you are in a better frame of mind and have more power over the situation. Mars is in its detriment so he is bound to be acting rash, headstrong and impulsive. He may also be disloyal, cruel, insensitive, and have a bad problem with his temper. These are just a few of the words borrowed from Lilly?s description of a debilitated Mars. They may not be exact, but in broad strokes, a weak Mars shows the bad side of the planet. Since he?s in the 12th house, which is the house of seclusion and lack of power, I?d say that he?s inaccessible to you, and not in control over his own situation. Whatever situation he?s in is not good for him, and you might even say that he?s imprisoned by it. You are by far the stronger position and have by far the nicer personality as far as this question goes.

Because he is in a sign ruled by Venus, and you are Venus, I?d still have to say that he has affection for you. I know nothing about the situation, but that is pretty clear in this chart. I?d say that puts me way out a limb because of what I am going to say next, but it?s there in the chart, so I have to say it.

Since you asked about his love life, next I?d look at what planets he either has recently made contact with, or is about to make contact with. That takes us to Jupiter. Jupiter is applying by opposition to Mars. Normally Mars moves faster, but because it?s retrograde and moving slowly, Jupiter is the one to apply to Mars. This shows him becoming involved with someone, and perhaps because Mars is retrograde, this could be someone who he?s known before. It could also just show that he?s not moving in the proper direction with his life. Either way, an opposition is not a good way to start a relationship. But Jupiter is in the sign and triplicity of Mars, which is like a way of saying that he has let her into his house; so, yes I would say that they are going to move in together. If the aspect were separating, I would not have said that. This is the start of a relationship. It might not be good for him, or for her for that matter, but that?s not the question.

Next I looked at the 7th house, and wow, this guy is busy. He?s got two other planets in his own house. And one of them, Mercury is also in a sign ruled by Mars. I?ll take a wild guess and say that either he has someone else already living with him, or there is just someone else out there who is into this guy. Whoever this poor person is, though she is in his sign, there is no aspect between them, so though there may be attraction and affection there, there is no opportunity for them to get together. This person is also in a very weak place, as Mercury is retrograde and combust the Sun. Does he have someone who is living with him now who is being kicked out to make room for the new person? Or is he dumping one person in favor of the new person?

So that describes his situation, but what about you? Like I said above, you are by far the strongest and happiest person in this picture. Venus is alone, unaspected except by the Moon. So thankfully you are not a party to this mess. The Moon translates light between Saturn and Venus, by square. Saturn usually shows an obstacle or some kind of blockage. It rules the 11th house, the house of friendship and it sits right on the cusp of the 5th house, sex and romance. You are also in a sign that is ruled by Saturn, so the blockage and loss that Saturn indicates is foremost on your mind. Saturn is in its detriment too. Saturn in detriment shows fear, lack of faith, jealousy, and other nasty things. So this translation of light shows that you are meeting up with a very cruel disappointment involving this relationship with this guy. I have to say that this is a very sad chart for me to interpret, because there is affection between you and this guy, as shown by him being in your sign, and you being in his exaltation. I am really bothered by this chart and my heart goes out to you. Because whatever demons this guy has, they seem to be in control of his life. His character isn?t the greatest, and he seems to be involved with at least two other people, though he seems to have you on his mind. That is so sad and I really mean that. Perhaps this disappointment will be not as hard to handle because Venus is received by the Moon by sign.

I wish I had a better reading for your first chart, I really do. Remember that you have more strength and freedom here than any of the other people in this chart. You may be alone but you are also separate from this man?s chaotic life, which is also good for you. Venus meets its detriment in the sign where Jupiter is now, and if Jupiter is the woman this man is moving in with, then that shows that if you were in her place, you?d be in an even worse situation. That may not be enough to make this a good reading, but believe me, you?d rather come home to peace and quiet and loneliness than to fights and chaos. I?ve been there, and there is a lot to be said for peace and quiet. So if you do get down over this situation, imagine living in a place filled with anger, betrayal, chaos, and no peace of mind, because that is where you?d be if you were living with him.
Mark F

Relationship Chart

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Hi Mark,

Many thanks for your extremely profound interpretation of this chart. Ihave a lot to learn about Horary. The book I have been studying doesnt mention anything about Faces- Terms etc so am not sure what they mean. Will reply privately -in answer to some of the questions you ask.

Thankyou verymuch for your help.

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Read the excellent articles on this site and take the little tests at the end of each lesson. Then get a copy of Lilly. His English is a little hard at first but he's still the best. I hear the John Frawley's recent book on horary is good but I don't have that.

Terms and faces are parts of a sign that are ruled by other planets. For example, all of the sign of Aries is ruled by Mars, but the first 6 degrees are ruled by Jupiter by term. The first tem degrees of Aries are ruled by Mars by face. Dignity by term and face are lesser forms of dignity. Again there are great introductory articles on here about dignity.
Mark F

Relationship question comment and a question

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Hello MarkF and Crazy Fish:

First, I want to apologize to Crazy Fish for not realizing she was asking about an EX... now the significators of Mars and Venus make a lot of sense.

And Mark, I am totally wowed by your analysis... it was not only very thorough, but so compassionate and heartfelt.

But here is my comment: I was listening to the Lee Lehman relationship horary CD last night she made an interesting statement regarding perfection by opposition as in this chart between Mars and Jupiter.

She said that whenever the significators perfect by opposition it's the "moth to the flame" aspect and it means two people are wildly attracted to each other, but it's also totally inappropriate (and doomed.) She also said when the perfection occurs in fixed signs people have a lot of trouble ending the relationship and hang on much longer than they probably should.

Also, is Mercury Combust the Sun even if they're in different signs as they are now?

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I might have to change one big thing about what I wrote, and that is relating to whether the guy, Mars, still has affection for Crazy Fish. I think he still does, but I had it backwards.

Like a lot of people I started out by reading John Frawley's The Real Astrology. He gives this formula that says, for example, Mars in Taurus means that Mars loves Venus. I've tried before to get this idea out of my head, but it keeps creeping back in. There is a great topic about this idea on this forum, that pretty much says that this idea may or may not be correct, but it really is John Frawley's own technique, and is at best kind too simplistic. The traditional view is different than Frawley's. The link to the topic is:
Reception Topic.

Using the more traditional approach, the key thing is who does Mars receive into his dignities? Mars recieves Mercury and Jupiter into its sign. Those are the two other women in his life. I think that when any planet receives another planet into its dignities, it's as if it is welcoming that planet into its home. Whatever the receiving planet has, whether it's good or bad can be given to the other planet. So again, Mars receives or welcomes two planets into his sign and this shows the two women he's involved with.

But Mars also receives Venus, Crazy Fish into his dignities by exaltation. They are not in orb, but there was a trine between them a long time ago. So there was love between them, and there still is affection, but its somewhat unrealistic maybe on his part. And the most important part is that it's over, as is shown by the separating aspect.

Receptions only tell part of the story. The rest is told by dignity and aspects. Mars is in its detriment, so what he gives these two women is not very good. And the fact that he will meet Jupiter by opposition shows that it will be like VoyagerGirl said, "a moth to the flame" attraction that is made harder to get out of by them both being in fixed signs.

Sure, Mercury is not strictly speaking combust, but it sure is under the Sun's beams, retrograde and not is aspect with Mars. She's on the way out.
Mark F

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Hi VoyagerGirl & Mark F,

Marks interpretation was AMAZING-- almost spot on-- but J hasnt had that many relationships this year. Broke up with me Jan this year-- 7 months with T ( in that time left her 7 times) had a break for 4 months & now presumably moved in with M. Yes- we do find it hard to break off completely & keep in contact.

Thankyou Mark for your advice, am now studying Debs Horary Tutorial & will ignore the Horary book I have-- McEvers- very confusing.

Perhaps someone can clear something up for me-- am not sure how the moon is transferring light to Saturn by square? Isnt it a sextile to Saturn? Also is there any significance in the fact that my significator Venus iwhich is situated in Cap is actually in his sun sign-- he is a Cap? I find it interesting but probably has nothing to do with Horary.

Thankyou verymuch for your help am learning a lot.

Crazy Fish

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C. Fish,

The Moon has separated from a sextile with Saturn, whereby it picked up some of its light, in this case Saturn's fear, loneliness, lack of faith, etc. The Moon will next make a square to Venus, to you. So it will them dump all of this onto you, and not in an easy, smooth way, but in a more pointed way. Venus receives the Moon by sign, so you readily take all this in, which in this case means that the influence of Saturn flows to you. I am not sure if that reception means a whole lot here. How do the rest of you feel about that? Does that mean she gets the bad mojo from Saturn in a more unrestrcited way? Or maybe it doens't matter that much.

I wouldn't relate a horary to a natal chart either. It doesn't matter if Venus in Capricorn relates to his natal chart. The real meaning in this chart is that by being in Capricorn he receives you by exaltation, because he is shown by Mars.
Mark F