Missing diamond ring

1
Hello all,
This is my first-ever horary interpretation so I?d be interested to know whether I?m on the right track. My mum lost her diamond ring about a year ago at home while getting ready to go work. In that period, she was the only one in the house as her cleaning lady was on holidays. She has long accepted the loss but I was interested in what happened to it. I posed the question 'Where is my mum?s diamond ring?' at 5.10pm on 26 August 2005, Proserpine, AUSTL, 148e34, 20s24 and have come up with the following: (although I don?t know whether this chart is ?interpretable? as the Moon is nearly void of course (29.11 degrees on the IC)

The querent (me) is at 23 degrees Aquarius rising with the Moon in Taurus in the fourth squaring the ascendant.
Mars, ruler of the second house of possessions in Aries is in detriment in the 3rd house at 14 degrees Taurus.
Mars makes no application to my ruler Saturn positioned in the 6th in detriment in Leo.
The Sun, the natural ruler of precious stones and valuable things is at 3 degrees Virgo in the 7th, past a square to the Moon, which is in exaltation in Taurus.
Lilly says that if the Moon is near the IC, the direction is North. It?s placement in Taurus indicates that it had fallen to the ground in the bathroom (places near the earth, bath, mirrors and women?s things?).

FOR RECOVERY
The Moon in Taurus in the fourth aspects the ascendant by square in Aquarius, both in angular houses.
The Moon also aspects a Fortunate: semi square Jupiter in Libra in the 8th.
The Sun is angular in the seventh in Virgo and still ?above the earth?.

AGAINST RECOVERY
The Moon is ?under the earth? in the fourth house far from the natural significator of the object, and squaring the Sun in the 7th.
The second house ruler, Mars is in the third in detriment in Taurus, without application to the Sun or Moon. I take this to signify damage or loss.
Mercury ruler of the 7th is at 15 degrees in the 6th in Leo, indicating ?unhelpful conditions?. Also, Saturn my ruler, is in detriment in Leo at 5.10 degrees but still within 6 degrees, indicating a slight alleviation. I take Mercury in the seventh to be the vacuum cleaner as Goldstein says that Mercury also rules household appliances?

Fazit: the ring, signified by the Sun in the 7th, indicates that it has been taken by someone else: the vacuum cleaner? Hence, it is lost for good.

I?ve been looking through a few horaries and have noticed that none mention Lilith?s role. Here, Lilith in the 6th is square Mars in the 3rd, sextile Venus in the 8th in Libra (which is essentially dignified) and conjunct Mercury in the 6th. Does this have any significance in horary?
Looking forward to your opinions.
Kind regards
Fiona

2
Horaries that show you won?t find a missing item are irritating! I tend not to go too far with them unless I see good indications of recovery built into the chart. There?s no hour agreement and the Moon is void, that might be reason enough to scrap this and decide the ring has gone and you just won?t get closure on it.

But it does seem a strange situation and if it was my diamond ring I?d probably go a bit further with it. I can?t help wondering whether the Moon in Taurus in the 4th on a sign boundary suggests it has fallen somewhere low and is lying trapped against something on the floor or hidden near a wall or partition. The direction north might be a red herring, and the chart doesn?t seem particularly ?watery? so I?m not too inclined towards the bathroom. But I?d be wanting to have another check of all places that are low and dark and near some kind of partition or wall. The application of the Moon to the Sun and your significator are over a sign cusp, so if a recovery does take place, some kind of boundary seems to be a key element in it.

It might have been the hoover cleaner - kick it anyway.

BTW, I get different house cusps to you using Regiomontanus.

3
Sorry but I'm a bit confused here.
The querent (me) is at 23 degrees Aquarius rising with the Moon in Taurus in the fourth squaring the ascendant.
Mars, ruler of the second house of possessions in Aries is in detriment in the 3rd house at 14 degrees Taurus.
Mars makes no application to my ruler Saturn
Wouldn't looking for Fiona's mother's ring indicate turning the chart? In other words the 10th and 11th? In which case the ring becomes Jupiter in the mother's 12th. Jupiter is leaving the conjunction of south node and Venus - a woman's past loss is due to carelessness (self undoing) and it's whereabouts may never be known (secrets)

No aspects between Mars and the Moon as the mother's significators and Jupiter as the ring. However the Moon about to change sign in the mother's 7th might indicate a change in circumstances through other people as it will then apply to trine Venus after sextiling the Sun but I don't know what this means
Fazit: the ring, signified by the Sun in the 7th,
Just looking for clarification. I've got an Asc of 23.34 Aquarius (Regio) with Pisces 21.07 on the 2nd (also Jupiter), Scorpio 23.06 on 10th and Sag 25.42 on 11.

4
I'd agree with everything said so far - not many signs for recovery, look down low, between things, etc. I would add that there is an applying aspect between Mercury and Jupiter, which is the ring. Now who is Mercury? Mercury rules the 5th house, so that could be Fiona's kids, if any. Or that could also be an artist, musician, poet, or some sort of creative person who happens upon the ring. The antiscia of Mars is conjunct Mercury, providing a contact between Fiona's mother and the person who may find it. Mercury also prohibits the conjunction of Venus to Mercury. Other than that I am stuck.
Mark F

5
Well I?ve thought quite a bit about this chart since my post above, mainly because I couldn?t work out how to read it without complicating matters again. Whether to turn it or not, why the ring had two significators and which one did I follow to the lost article. I think I sorted out (with the help of Deb's articles) that if I needed to turn the chart to read what happened to the ring and whether there was likelihood of recovery, that was fine. However then it is necessary to find the planet that describes the lost article and use it for direction distance etc.

When Mark?s comment revived the thread. I started puzzling over it again and eventually asked another question. I found the original chart difficult and wondered whether I should get involved again but my original comment stuck in my mind-
However the Moon about to change sign in the mother's 7th might indicate a change in circumstances through other people as it will then apply to trine Venus after sextiling the Sun
So I spent quite a few minutes carefully framing the question-

?Can the other person?s diamond ring be found, if so where is it??
4 Dec 2005
12.41 pm (GMT +10.5)
Adelaide Sth Aust
138e35 / 34s55

Asc 8.35 Pisces

As querent, my significator Jupiter is in the 9th house of astrology and the chart has a Jupiter hour, so I think the chart is radical and can be read to the question.

There?s some more symbolism here in that the Sun (as general significator of the lost ring) was in the mother?s 10th house in the first chart - angular, fire sign Leo on the MC but the Sun was in Virgo. In this chart the Sun is in the radical 10th ? angular, fire sign Sag on the MC, but this time the Sun is not only in the same sign as the MC, it is within orb of conjunction. I believe something about the ring?s whereabouts has changed and it can now be discovered.

In addition, if we look at the turned chart with L7, Mercury, as Fiona?s mother and L8 Venus as her possession, we see that Mercury is now direct and in partile sextile to Venus indicating the two coming together. The Moon as activator (and mother?s second significator) is applying first to a conjunction with Venus and then a sextile with Mercury, again showing the ring coming to the mother. Both the Moon and Venus are in mother?s 5th (Capricorn) indicating her daughter may be the agent of discovery. The Sun as the ring?s general significator, is in the mother?s home.

The Moon rules the radical 5th and Saturn, (ruler of mother?s 5th ) has just passed into the radical 6th indicating Fiona may discover the ring in the course of daily habits. Possibly in about 10 days time (Moon applying conjunct Venus). Although Venus is in a cardinal sign, it is succedent, so I think it will be longer than 10 hours even though the angular Sun points to a quick recovery.

As to where the ring might be found ? the Sun?s position in the radical chart.

10th house = south
fire sign = east
Sagittarius = east by south

I would first try the most southern room in the house and go to the east wall and start working around that wall to the south.

Deb?s article also says-
Fire signs indicate places near heat or fire: near chimneys or radiators or where fires have been, near iron or the walls and partitions of a house - or east.
The places near heat or fire can also mean anything that produces heat such as a lamp or computer. The bit about iron might mean a pot or decoration of some kind.
Common (mutable) signs indicate places near water, the eaves of houses, covered places, closets, antechambers and rooms within rooms. The significator of the property in a common sign can also indicate that it is inside the home.
I think the chart shows something about the ring's circumstances has changed and it might now be found. Hope this helps.

Thank you for your feedback

6
Dear all,
I'd like to thank you for your time and efforts in dealing with this query and would like to give you a brief feedback.
I am not yet comfortable with turning charts and applying aspects so that I indeed have much to learn.
Coincidentally, when I read the first two posts I was in Europe visiting my mum for two weeks due to a death in the family. That's why this reply is so late. Interestingly, Deb's comments gave me renewed impetus to once again turn the wardrobe upside down in search of my mum's ring. A gut feeling tells me that the ring is still there. We also used a pendulum that indicated clearly that the ring was in the wardrobe. Perhaps wishful thinking has overridden any neutralilty in the matter :-? .
As Deb indicated, I spent two days looking closely behind and between partitions, under the carpet and crevices in the walls. I also turned jumpers and towels inside out. The ring has not yet reappeared.
Sungem's new chart gives me hope. I"ll try to study it more closely. Perhaps I was indeed close in retrieving the lost item. But because of time contraints and the fact that my mum lives overseas, I"ll have to be working with her via email to find it now.
I"ll indeed keep you all posted on this matter.
Kind regards
Fiona

7
Hi Fiona

I'm sorry the visit with your mother was one necessitated by a death, please accept my condolences.

However thank you for bringing us up to date on the "treasure hunt". It does put us in the picture a bit more to know that in fact we're doing this long distance twice over! :shock:

In any case, the recent visit will have refreshed your memory of the layout and contents of your mother's house and hopefully enable you to suggest further searching if and when your mother feels inclined to continue this hunt.
I am not yet comfortable with turning charts and applying aspects so that I indeed have much to learn.
It can get tricky, and I'm probably a prime example of someone who keeps getting caught in "double turns" :) However the concept is relatively simple once grasped and I think it is important to remember up front not to turn it if you don't need to and part of this comes down to phrasing a question you can answer in the first place, i.e. think about which houses you are going to use to read the question. (You asked a perfectly good and well phrased question, I simply became a bit confused in the reading of it).

Notice above I said I had asked a "carefully framed question" - I thought specifically about this thread while asking about the "other person's ring" so that I could use the 7th for your mother and only have to turn the chart once. The (radical) 7th then becomes your mother's first house, the 8th her second house, the 9th her third house and so on around to the radical 6th which is her twelfth. When you give yourself the ASC while asking about someone else, this is the radical chart, i.e. as we normally view it, however you may or may not, have a role in the judgement. You then literally turn the house numbers in the chart to start from the "other person" as house number one. You will get used to doing it in your head, but in the beginning, if it helps to physically turn the chart do so.

If you were asking about a friend the radical 11th would become the first. If you were asking about a sister the radical 3rd would become the first. All aspects are then read in this turned chart. They describe the situation from the other person's point of view.

If I had asked the question "Can Fiona's mother's ring be found?" I think I would have had to take you as the 7th (any person) and using that as your 1st, count around to your 10th to represent your mother. That then would have become her first and the second from that, her ring. I didn't want to do this so I simplified the question.

The alternative might have been to give you the Asc and the radical 10th to your mother and the 11th to her possessions. These then become her first and second houses.

A common pitfall with turning charts is what I call cross-reading, i.e. reading a turned placement to a radical. I'm really bad a creating examples but I think this will work - in a relationship chart, if you have the Asc and Venus in his 3rd trines Mars in the 5th. No it doesn't - Venus in his (turned from the 7th) third, trines his Mars in his 11th, you are a friend he can talk to - or else he's your dreamlover! :D This doesn't negate the fact that in horary what you are looking for initially is an applying aspect between his significator and yours and probably 90% of the time this will give an answer, though not necessarily the one desired. The other 10% of the time reading the chart from one person's point of view and then the other person's point of view, may show differing points of view. :? It's probably all as clear as mud by now! :P

That's another point though, a "muddy" question will usually give a "muddy" chart. It's as though having thought something through from every angle possible and then asked the question, the Universe says "Well I don't know which particular angle you're interested in, so here's what I've got going at the moment, you sort it out!" And then of course we lament it's complications!

I read the second chart above from the "other person's" point of view to see if your mother and her ring seemed to be coming together. I thought they were. However I read the ring's whereabouts from the radical 10th using the Sun as general significator for a piece of jewellery, because it tied in with your chart as I explained above. If that doesn't bring any success, we can always revert to using Venus in the turned chart as the ring's hiding place but from a quick look, it's a lot of "south" too - hope this doesn't mean it's down the drain!

Of course others will differ and I might be off with the fairies too! :lol:

Negative update

9
Hello Granny-S,
I am a regular visitor to this forum in order to learn but because I"m a layperson in astrology and particulary horary, I do not dare to contribute just yet to other people's issues. However, as I started this link (and promised to keep you posted, here my update.
This is indeed a mystery that has not yet been resolved. With the help of sungem and deb's encouragement I was hoping that we (my mother and I) could come to a close on this subject, but somehow the ring hasn't reappeared.
Although it should actually be the other way around, my mum backs off at the slightest search failure, I assume because of the emotional stress it causes her (was a heirloom). Never mind. she will be moving sometime in october to a different house and promised me to give it yet another thorough search before she does so.
Sorry that I can't provide you with any news. And I am still convinced that that damn thing is hiding in the wardrobe somewhere. Silly as it may sound, sometimes I believe the ring has a life of its own and is doing this on purpose. Good luck in finding some indicators as to why this is so.
Regards
Fiona