timing horary

1
dear group,

i have been grappling with this one horary about timing for quite some time. i thought i would ask you guys for advice.

first off, it is a relationship horary question. i dont generally do relationship horaries but this situation is of genuine importance and interest to me, so i caved - twice. the first horary question i did on this situation about whether i would be reunited with a former boyfriend yielded a yes answer. after analysing that chart, i did a timing horary about when we would be reunited. i am still a little confused about how to interpret. here are the chart details:

when will i be reunited with g?

may 19, 2005
10:05 am EDT
london, kentucky
AC ? cancer 20?31'
my primary significator, moon ? libra 5?3'
his primary significator, saturn ? cancer 23?18'

my question is what exactly does one look at to determine timing? what if you've got a couple of different indicators going on like in this chart? for example:

? both the moon (me) and saturn (him) separate from easy aspects by about the same degree to the sun in the 11th, so i took this to mean when we last saw each other, and so 6? should equal a period of about 10 months

? he's saturn and he applies to the AC by 3?, so this should mean the answer is 5 months

? the moon and saturn are approaching an eventual square by 18?, but there is strong reception between them -- the moon is in saturn's exaltation, triplicity and terms and saturn is in the moon's ruler and face

i guess what im confused about is how there's a clear indication on the one hand with saturn applying to the AC, but what about that square between the moon and saturn? the reception helps to mitigate the square, right? my inclination is to say that while he does apply to the AC indicating an answer of 5 mos., the square with reception seems to indicate a delay. so maybe it'll be longer than 5 months.


can anyone shed a little light maybe? thanks so much guys! i really appreciate your help.



sincerely,
chrissy

2
...after analysing that chart, i did a timing horary about when we would be reunited.
My understanding here is that you did a second chart, is that correct?
the first horary question i did on this situation about whether i would be reunited with a former boyfriend yielded a yes answer
If the first chart shows that you will be reunited, it should also show when. I think this is the chart you should be looking at - sorry.

3
dear sungem,

oh wow, i didnt think of it that way. you've got a great point!!

the first chart details are for reference:

will i be reunited with g as friends or lovers?

april 22, 2005
8:34 am CDT
hurst, texas
AC - gemini 3?16'
my primary significator, mercury - aries 5?53'
his primary significator, jupiter rx - libra 11?37'
moon - libra 9?42'

mercury (me) and jupiter (him) are actually applying to an opposition 5?, but the moon does translate the light of the 2 by separating from an opposition to mercury 3? and applying to conjunct jupiter rx by 1?. this conjunction of moon/jupiter occurs in the 5th house, so i took this to mean we'd be reunited as lovers. the moon/jupiter conjunction is mutually applying, since jupiter is retrograde, so i took this to mean it would happen unexpectedly. finally, since jupiter is rx i took that to mean he would indeed return to me.

i couldnt really say as far as timing...i suppose i would look to the sign this conjunction is in, right? libra, so that's cardinal. then i would look at the house, that would be the 5th, and that's a succeedent house so that indicates a medium amount of time, no?


thanks again for helping me to see it another way!



sincerely,
chrissy

4
Hi Chrissy

I?m sorry but I don?t think I can confirm your judgement of this chart.
but the moon does translate the light of the 2 by separating from an opposition to mercury 3? and applying to conjunct jupiter rx by 1?. this conjunction of moon/jupiter occurs in the 5th house, so i took this to mean we'd be reunited as lovers.
If this were to indicate the positive outcome you hope for, bringing the two of you together again, I would have expected it to have happened by now. If we are taking the signs and house of the Moon and Jupiter i.e. shortest and medium, and work on medium meaning 2 months from the date of the chart.

Your primary significator Mercury is in your 11th house of friendships in a sign intercepted and therefore indicating an inability to influence the outcome. The 11th is ruled by g?s primary significator Jupiter. The only aspect between you is the approaching opposition.

What immediately drew my attention was the Sun and Venus approaching conjunction in the 12th house of hidden things and secrets in 6 somethings. Sign and house again indicate medium, therefore 6 months. While I don?t give the outers rulerships, I take notice when they appear to insert themselves into the reading of the chart as the sextile to Uranus does here. Read in the 11th , I think you are probably going to shortly discover he has another relationship, possibly someone you know or know of.

While Jupiter is in Venus? sign, he isn?t received by Mercury but is strongly received by Saturn which rules your 8th of loss and the MC being status and reputation amongst other things. Also the trine from Jupiter to the MC would have happened 4 months from the date of the chart. His change of heart or the end of the matter from his point of view (turned 4th).

I know that Tom has often pointed out that in relationship horaries, the woman can also be given Venus and the man the Sun. I just don?t think these two in the 12th indicate the pair of you, or if it does then I think that sextile from Uranus indicates a sudden realisation that all it will be is friendship ? despite the translation, Jupiter and Mercury will oppose in 6 months from the chart date at the same time that the Sun conjuncts Venus.

The other way of looking at it is that Sun/Venus indicates you will get back together but the Mercury/Jupiter opposition indicates you'll wish you hadn't.

I'm not very good at this, sorry if I've got it all wrong.

Boyfriend question/timing

5
I guess I am the non-traditionalist here, since I would only use the 7th house as his significator if you were asking about a former spouse or if you were asking about a possible marriage or permanent relationship with him.

However, using the 5th house as his significator we get Mars in 13 Pisces ruling him. Your ruler, the Moon at 2 Libra is making no aspect to him at all, which indicates you won't be getting back together. (Essentially, the same reading as Sungem, I believe it was, gave.)

But, if you follow the McCann/McEvers school of thought, they use quincunxes and though this approaching quincunx is wildly out of orb, the Moon will eventually quincunx Mars in a unit of 11. McEvers/McCann teach that the quincunx means something needs to change before the desired result can happen: here, if you notice, Mars is separating from a conjunction in the 8th house with Uranus. Using Lee Lehman's teaching, this indicates he is with someone else, although they are separating.

Also, if you use your fifth as his first, then that places his ruler, Mars in HIS fifth house (your eighth) which indicates to me, he had or is having a romantic relationship with someone else. And given that Uranus is the other person's significator, I'd say it was a very exciting, sudden attraction that will end as quickly as it began.

So by my calculations, based on McEvers (and I don't agree with much of what they teach!) you might have a chance to be reunited with him around March of 2006, after he breaks up with this other person.

Please let us know; otherwise, how will we know if what we predicted will come to pass?

6
thank you so much guys for your input. i am not exactly certain the prediction that he is with another woman is true, as the reason we are not in contact right now is that he is in the hospital...suffice it to say he has a lot of health issues. i will certainly let you guys know how this works out though!





sincerely,
chrissy

Note: I was using the "second chart" but...

7
I saw the May 19 chart was the second chart you did, so using the first chart you cast for April 22, I get Mercury as both of your rulers, using your fifth house as his ruler.

What's interesting to me is that in this first chart, 13 Pisces rules the 11th house cusp: the exact same degree and sign as his ruler, Mars, in the second chart you cast! (Using your fifth house as his first in that chart.)

Here, Mercury is in your 11th, meaning you have the possibility for a friendship at this point, but given that the Moon is coming to oppose it, indicates a separation.

I'm not sure if I would try to "time" anything from the first chart since you asked a "Will" question and not a "When" question on April 22.

The reason I say this is some horary astrologers are very adamant that you can only ask one question in each chart and the question you asked is answered by that chart and you can't glean anything more from it.

I'm not sure if timing falls into this strict category: on one hand it does seem reasonable to try and time something from any chart you cast even though your original chart didn't ask a "timing" question.

But if the alternative is true, meaning since you didn't ask about a time frame in the first chart, then the second chart would be valid for that purpose.

Time will tell!