Mutual reception versus bad applying aspect

1
Guys,

I have a question that in some ways continues the discussion of dignities and reception on another thread here.

I posed a horary question myself. A very close, warm, loving friendship has been rapidly becoming more and more romantic lately. I asked if the friendship would turn into a regular, romantic relationship. (October 1, 2005, 7:11 pm, New York City)

I got a very contradictory chart that I think goes to the heart of the whole weighing and negotiating interpretive process that horary involves. My significator (Mars) and my friend's (Venus) are immediately making an opposition to each other (bad), yet they are in mutual reception and Lilly says that overrides the bad aspect (good), yet mine is in my first house and his is in his turned first, which would seem to imply no connection (bad), and they're both weakened in signs in which they don't function at their best (bad), yet they're at home in the houses they rule, Mars in 1st, Venus in 7th (good). As for the Moon, it makes a transfer of light aspect by first sextiling Venus and then trining Mars just before they oppose each other (good). Jupiter is sitting right on chart's Descendant (good I think, no?) and ruler of his turned 5th is in my 5th and also sextiles ruler of my 5th (good or bad?)

I dunno... Am I right in thinking this is a contradictory chart or is there something very obvious that I'm missing. What do you folks think?

I read Ms. Houlding's new message at the head of the forum and would like to respect it. I hope it doesn't feel like I'm just asking for interpretive help. I really feel like this chart made me ask some hard question about what elements need to be weighed before making a judgement.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

PL[size=18][/size][size=24][/size]

2
Also wanted to point out that rulers of 2nd and 8th Houses, Jupiter and Mercury, are applying quickly to conjuntion right on chart descendant. Is this important? 2nd and 8th Houses i mean?
PL

Mutual reception

3
It seems the traditional thinking is that having the two significators being in their detriments means their influence as to the reception is seriously hampered. One article likened it to "two drunks helping each other home."

However, generally, I would say that having two significators in each other's sign bodes very well for your question. But the problem here is that if Mars and Venus are coming to an opposition, what that tells me is that you will be together, but ultimately will break up.

I guess time will tell. Please let us know.

4
Thnaks Voyager girl.

Yeah, hmmmmmm..... It IS complicated though, isn't it. Because the first aspect is actually the Moon making a translation of light between the two mutually received significators, sextiling Venus, then trining Mars. Sounds perfect. But then immediately you get the opposition.

Guess you raised another question. Does only first aspect count? If they both count, what's the timing issue like. Will mutual reception make the translation of light more powerful and the opposition not as bad? What do you think? Or will it mean what you said, we come together and then apart? And sextile/trine/opposition are literally minutes apart from each other. Guess it'll happen soon whatever it is.

Will keep you posted.

PL

Mutual Opposition

5
So since I don't have the chart in front of me, is the Moon in Virgo?

If you're familiar with astrologer Lee Lehman, she says that when perfection by opposition happens, it's "the moth to the flame" aspect, but probably doomed. (I hope not for your sake.)

Your instincts might be right: you'll come together and things will be great for a while. Then, not so great.

Also, are you using the 1st and 7th house as significators? I would do this only if you're really asking about a marriage/permanent relationship or a potential live-in situation.

If you're really just asking whether or not he'll be your boyfriend, then check the aspects between the 1st and 5th houses. That might be more accurate, but it really depends on what exactly you're asking.

But my guess is you're wanting to know if there'll be something more permanent and Mars and Venus are the right signficators for this chart.

I don't think the sextile and trine from the Moon saves the mutual reception from the upcoming opposition. But, I really hope you will let us know, because that's the only way we can tell if we're right.

6
Thanks again for your feedback.

One possible interpretation is that we will remain close friends or become even closer but not get into a romantic or sexual relationship.

Mutual reception seems to indicate a deep reciprocal love, but one where, because of the negative aspect between the two, nothing "happens."

Hope we don't fall out.

Will keep you posted.

PL

7
And re: your comment about the 5th Houses, Voyagergirl...the ruler of his turned 5th, Saturn in Leo, is located in my 5th, and closely sextiling the ruler of my 5th, Sun in Libra, being received by the Sun as well. Don't know what you think of that...

And yes, teh Moon is in Virgo. Bad?

PL

Re: Mutual reception versus bad applying aspect

8
PiscesLeo wrote:Guys,
My significator (Mars) and my friend's (Venus) are immediately making an opposition to each other (bad), yet they are in mutual reception and Lilly says that overrides the bad aspect (good), yet mine is in my first house and his is in his turned first, which would seem to imply no connection (bad), and they're both weakened in signs in which they don't function at their best (bad), yet they're at home in the houses they rule, Mars in 1st, Venus in 7th (good).
I haven't looked at the chart but mutual reception between two significators indicate a strong comfort level, respect and the willingness to "make things work out" between the two parties. However, since both of you are in detriment, you just don't have the "strength" or "power" (not sure if I'm using the correct terminology but you probably understand what I mean) to get it together. On top of this, the two of you are coming to an opposition.

As I understand it, if both rulers are in major detriment, it overrides other positive aspects that may exist. Two drunks may have the opportunity (aspect) and willingness (reception) to help each other or cultivate something between them, but what can they possibly accomplish if neither can walk a straight line?
As for the Moon, it makes a transfer of light aspect by first sextiling Venus and then trining Mars just before they oppose each other (good).
Translation occurs when a faster moving planet is moving away from a major ptolemaic aspect from one of the significators and coming to a major ptoelemaic aspect with the other, without making any aspects with any other planets in the interim. Furthermore, for true translation to occur, the translating planet has to be in the dignities of the two rulers. What you are describing doesn't seem to be translation. I'm sure Deb explains it much more clearly and accurately in the glossary that is at this site, you should read that.
Jupiter is sitting right on chart's Descendant (good I think, no?) and ruler of his turned 5th is in my 5th and also sextiles ruler of my 5th (good or bad?)
If you are a beginner, I think you should stick to the basics; the 1st and the 7th. Too much turning or analysis of "side" issues will just complicate things for you and cloud the true answer. Ruler of his turned 5th in your fifth sextiling your ruler of the 5th - I wouldn't even venture to attempt to delineate that one!!

The answer is in the what's going on between your ruler and his - the 1st and 7th.

All the best..

9
Venus and Mars are in mutual reception by sign: great, they love each other. BUT are they in the appropriate places in the chart?

Lord 1 in 7th house - in detriment BUT loves Lord 7 - good indication

Lord 1 in OTHER sign ruled by Lord 7, i.e. in detriment but not in 7th house - bad indication.

Frawley says this misplaced indicates a relationship based around unhappiness rather than true affection for that person, e.g. "oh wonderful person who will rescue me/make my life better" etc etc etc. (Lord 1 in detriment but not in 7th.) Just from this reception, it looks like you two do have a sound friendship, but the opposition combined with the misplaced houses seems to show this will be a mistake.

I've seen this in my own charts while Venus and Mars have been opposing from Scorpio/Taurus:

Lord 1/7 mutual reception on 7/1 cusps (i.e. when Taurus/Scorpio rises) is a completely different story from Lord 1/7 mutual reception in any other houses (i.e. when Libra/Aries rises).

Hope this helps :)

10
Thanks for all feedback.

Just realized that Moon -- which is singificator for Querent, no? -- makes its first aspect as sextile to Venus, which is Quesitted. Doesn't that help out at all, regardless of translation of light controversy?

PL