backing up western msm talking points with astrology is an interesting approach...

ever heard of the fog of war and how the first casualty is the truth?

happy easter!

Easter greetings to all
James I do try to use astrology to uncover the truth, but admit to my short comings in my attempts, but hey! Let him without sin cast the first stone, my little sermon from Holy Week.
On the theme of holy things & patron saints So my thoughts were as Venus Mars collided in planetary wars would it be feasible to assume let’s say Venus the Patron for Ukraine & Mars for Russia ! Given Putin has a Scorpio ascendant
Mars would represent the Reds, & Venus has a colour association with the Ukrainian flag blue / yellow. I realise that there is some fiendish dark neocon/ illuminati agenda ongoing where a collapse / dissolve & reform as is written on the baphomet arms has been going on since Covid was manufactured. They hope to generate a NWO to throne the anti Christ, but trying to find planets represent this is beyond me, or maybe a planet is yet to be uncovered .. surely we can name it the antiChrist.
So returning to my theme of Venus Mars. It is interesting that the early degrees of Pisces have an antiscia which squares Pluto . So Venus antiscia square Pluto 1st week of April atrocities of Bucha. Mars antiscia of Pluto sinking of Moskva. It will be interesting how these two planetary movements and the course of the battle will pan out & if any further correlation plays out.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCD0hTApPdhw4ImbIGxzyO7g This video links with this theme Forecast for the Ukraine war

Thanks for the link Zosma!
Cochrane is a must today with his Vibrational Astrology. Will go over his 20 Free Astrology Lessons.
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Coming back to the the War in Ukraine, the Aries Ingress of March 20th was conjunct the SA/UR midpoint (both in Contra Antiscia) and semi-square the MA/SA midpoint. The Aries Point has to do with world events.
Witte says...
AP (Aries Point) = SA/UR
Quarrels. Sudden separation and losses (in the World)
Technical problems (standby, shut-down, outdated technology)
The “Five Eyes??? alliance (US, UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) points out that some cybercriminals have recently publicly pledged allegiance to the Russian government.
Washington has warned since the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine on February 24 that Moscow risks using the weapon of cyberattacks against Kyiv and its Western allies, which has not yet happened. The statement from the Western allies identifies a dozen groups of hackers likely to carry out these attacks, some linked to the intelligence services or the Russian army, others private.

Back up your data!

AP = MA/SA
General periodic interruption of work. General sickness, separation, death

As well Poseidon was conjunct the SU on the Aries Point. (45d Wheel) which translates to great floods on Earth.

I would expect the above to be amplified when Jupiter enters Aries May 10th (including a huge shutdown of technology) followed by Mars entering Aries May 24th.

Does it mean that NATO and the US will be more involved in the conflict?

ouranos quote - "Does it mean that NATO and the US will be more involved in the conflict?" it is pretty hard for them to get more involved, short of lobbing a nuclear weapon into russia... yeah.. maybe that is the next smart move coming up from nato and usa.. so many smart moves already, lol... i am sure they can make some more smart moves!!

zosma... thanks for your comments and the link to david cochranes video... what did you get from the video of astrological merit, if anything? thanks.. maybe some of ouranos commentary is a partial summation of cochranes video... i believe he is into midpoitns as memory serves.. thanks for that ouranos....

This is a partial repeat of a recent post I made on the Astrodienst mundane board:

I was looking at the chart of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, separately and in relation to the horoscopes of Ukraine and Russia. I began to wonder if Putin or his henchman actually consulted an astrologer to time the invasion. Russia had been amassing troops and materiel on the Ukrainian border for months, starting in 2021, so the question is, why invade on February 24 at 4:55 a.m.?

Here is the event chart for the invasion:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mi ... of_Ukraine

For the founding of Ukraine as an independent nation: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nation:_Ukraine


Invasion of Ukraine:
1. 16 degrees Capricorn rising. First house Mars, Venus, Pluto conjunction in Capricorn. Mars rules the military. It is exalted in Capricorn and Mars-Pluto seems especially aggressive. These sextile a domiciled Neptune in Pisces.

2. With Scorpio on the MC, it is strengthened by the angularity of Mars-Pluto and the Mars exaltation.

3. Sun in Pisces conjuncts a domiciled Jupiter-- "the great benefic" and sextiles Uranus in Taurus.

4. Saturn, the modern chart ruler is domiciled in Aquarius.

The Astrodienst chart shows a moon-Neptune square but it is very wide (15 degrees) and out-of-sign. The close applying square between Mercury and Uranus looks troublesome to the invader, as does the moon-sun square, although it is separating.

No electional chart is perfect. All-in-all this is a favorable chart for a military invasion.

Ukraine founding/invasion date synastry
1. Both the invasion chart and Ukraine's founding chart have 16o of Capricorn rising. This cannot be a random coincidence.

2. This puts the invasion's aggressive Mars-Pluto in Ukraine's first house of national identity.

3. The invasion chart's Saturn at 18 degrees Aquarius conjuncts Ukraine's moon at 22 degrees. In mundane astrology the moon represents "the people." Traditionally Saturn is the "greater malefic."

3. The invasion chart's Saturn makes a wide opposition to Ukraine's Mercury-Venus-Jupiter in Leo. Transiting Saturn is getting closer now to the opposition.

4. Invasion chart's Neptune opposes Ukraine's Mars. Mars rules the military, and Neptune tends to dissolve what it touches. This may help Ukraine's "liquidation" of a lot of Russia's heavy equipment and Russian soldier casualties.

To its benefit, Ukraine's Pluto/MC in Scorpio conjuncts the invasion's MC and square's the invasion's Saturn. Ukraine also has some internal strength with its sun and Mercury in mutual reception, its natal domiciled Saturn, and its sun-Mercury-Jupiter-Venus trine natal Neptune.

What are the odds that the invasion and Ukraine both have the same ascendant degree?

All glory to Ukraine.

Incidentally, Vladimir Putin's moon and Mars are both significantly out-of bounds, at 25 degrees north and south (Counter-parallel.) This suggests Putin does not feel that his natural aggression is subject to ordinary constraints.

(I get that Astrodienst's horoscope for VP is rated DD, but I've worked with a lot and think it's valid. The Isaac Starkman rectification is only 5 minutes different (ToB 9:35 am.) Tass, the official Russian news agency gives his DoB at October 7, 1952.)

waybread wrote:This is a partial repeat of a recent post I made on the Astrodienst mundane board:

I was looking at the chart of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, separately and in relation to the horoscopes of Ukraine and Russia. I began to wonder if Putin or his henchman actually consulted an astrologer to time the invasion. Russia had been amassing troops and materiel on the Ukrainian border for months, starting in 2021, so the question is, why invade on February 24 at 4:55 a.m.?

Here is the event chart for the invasion:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mi ... of_Ukraine

For the founding of Ukraine as an independent nation: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nation:_Ukraine


Invasion of Ukraine:
1. 16 degrees Capricorn rising. First house Mars, Venus, Pluto conjunction in Capricorn. Mars rules the military. It is exalted in Capricorn and Mars-Pluto seems especially aggressive. These sextile a domiciled Neptune in Pisces.

2. With Scorpio on the MC, it is strengthened by the angularity of Mars-Pluto and the Mars exaltation.

3. Sun in Pisces conjuncts a domiciled Jupiter-- "the great benefic" and sextiles Uranus in Taurus.

4. Saturn, the modern chart ruler is domiciled in Aquarius.

The Astrodienst chart shows a moon-Neptune square but it is very wide (15 degrees) and out-of-sign. The close applying square between Mercury and Uranus looks troublesome to the invader, as does the moon-sun square, although it is separating.

No electional chart is perfect. All-in-all this is a favorable chart for a military invasion.

Ukraine founding/invasion date synastry
1. Both the invasion chart and Ukraine's founding chart have 16o of Capricorn rising. This cannot be a random coincidence.

Not a random coincidence, but quite possibly an astro-logical occurrence.

I don't get it why - if we accept astrology's tenets as valid - we would have to assume this kind of precisely timed event to be the result of human planning. Astrology is based on 'meaningful coincidence'!

2. This puts the invasion's aggressive Mars-Pluto in Ukraine's first house of national identity.

3. The invasion chart's Saturn at 18 degrees Aquarius conjuncts Ukraine's moon at 22 degrees. In mundane astrology the moon represents "the people." Traditionally Saturn is the "greater malefic."

3. The invasion chart's Saturn makes a wide opposition to Ukraine's Mercury-Venus-Jupiter in Leo. Transiting Saturn is getting closer now to the opposition.

4. Invasion chart's Neptune opposes Ukraine's Mars. Mars rules the military, and Neptune tends to dissolve what it touches. This may help Ukraine's "liquidation" of a lot of Russia's heavy equipment and Russian soldier casualties.

To its benefit, Ukraine's Pluto/MC in Scorpio conjuncts the invasion's MC and square's the invasion's Saturn. Ukraine also has some internal strength with its sun and Mercury in mutual reception, its natal domiciled Saturn, and its sun-Mercury-Jupiter-Venus trine natal Neptune.

What are the odds that the invasion and Ukraine both have the same ascendant degree?

All glory to Ukraine.

Likewise, what I stated applies to your further observations as well.

Michael, it is sometimes helpful to think of Occam's Razor, that the proposition requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct. This doesn't mean that it is correct, but that the more one has to infer a lot of unproven assumptions to support a proposition, the less likely it is to be correct.

We cannot ignore all of the planning and decision-making that goes into a major military invasion. The Russians were lining up troops and materiel for months prior to the February 24 invasion. It didn't just somehow happen.

The timing of the invasion has all of the fingerprints of an electional chart.

I think it's likely that the Russians consulted an astrologer. Something commanders-in-chief have been doing since Babylonian times.

waybread wrote:Michael, it is sometimes helpful to think of Occam's Razor, that the proposition requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct. This doesn't mean that it is correct, but that the more one has to infer a lot of unproven assumptions to support a proposition, the less likely it is to be correct.

We cannot ignore all of the planning and decision-making that goes into a major military invasion. The Russians were lining up troops and materiel for months prior to the February 24 invasion. It didn't just somehow happen.

The timing of the invasion has all of the fingerprints of an electional chart.

I think it's likely that the Russians consulted an astrologer. Something commanders-in-chief have been doing since Babylonian times.

That's a possibility, of course.

However, this is an interesting example how even Ockam's Razor comes down to our personal beliefs.

Reading your posts, I can't help thinking that to you, astrology is all about projecting a set of mythological/psychological symbols on a sky that in truth knows nothing about the latter. Whereas to me, it's based on the functioning of a cosmos which is a both physical and metaphysical 'entity' whose movements are directly reflected by what is happening in our inner and outer experience.

Thus, my razor cuts differently than yours.

Really interesting Michael, especially in connection with the asteroid thread currently running.

In terms of mythology, that is how astrology originated. It didn't come out of science. It initially came out of beliefs that the planets were gods; and subsequently, that planets were under the tutelage of gods. We inherit those traditions today. The planet Mars rules soldiers because the Roman Mars was the god of war. Mercury rules thought because Hermes was understood to travel on winged feet between different realms as a messenger.

We can ignore astrology's foundations, but willful ignorance cannot deny what these foundations are and were. Religious beliefs and the heavens were inseparable. It was not a big step to the monotheistic religions in which a divine Creator set the heavens in motion.

Now what happens if there is no meaningful distinction "above" vs. "below," or "heavens" vs. "earth"? That dichotomy is merely a matter of scale. What if we're all part of the same holistic system?

Consider that we can only understand the sky through our culture-bound beliefs, be they religion, astral fatalism, or science. Science is a cultural product. In fact, yesterday's scientific findings are often discarded with discoveries of new scientific findings that seem more accurate.

And yes, there is "the inner sky," which is the only way we can possibly understand astrology.

So to come back to the topic, I find it much harder to believe in some sort of unprovable fatalism than to consider whether an astrologer had a hand in setting the Ukraine invasion time and date.

I've never heard that Vladimir Putin accepts astrology but he certainly accepts metaphysical teachings.

Cf. the teachings of the Russian Orthodox patriarch Kirill with his belief in the destiny of a greater Russia. (“Russkiy mir")

"The trouble is that the twin tyrants of the post-Bolshevik state and post-Czarist church have been dogmatically and doggedly tone-deaf in recent decades to the free world’s developments, which they consider and condemn as shades of evil in a fallen world. There is indeed religious symbolism behind the territorial invasion of Ukraine by Russia, but it reflects the much larger metaphysical fantasy of the spiritual salvation of the whole world."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... raine-war/

Then the commanding officer of the invasion itself may have asked for an electional reading, independently of the Kremlin.

Is this conjecture? Certainly. But the charts of the invasion plus Ukraine's founding are hard to explain otherwise.

It's even harder to explain a bunch of unprovable ideas about astral determinism.

waybread wrote:Really interesting Michael, especially in connection with the asteroid thread currently running.

In terms of mythology, that is how astrology originated. It didn't come out of science. It initially came out of beliefs that the planets were gods; and subsequently, that planets were under the tutelage of gods. We inherit those traditions today. The planet Mars rules soldiers because the Roman Mars was the god of war. Mercury rules thought because Hermes was understood to travel on winged feet between different realms as a messenger.

None of this is random, though. The individual planets were correctly identified by ancient Man as visible manifestations of metaphysical entities or principles, that are being expressed as warfare, thought, etc. in the human world.

We can ignore astrology's foundations, but willful ignorance cannot deny what these foundations are and were. Religious beliefs and the heavens were inseparable. It was not a big step to the monotheistic religions in which a divine Creator set the heavens in motion.

Now what happens if there is no meaningful distinction "above" vs. "below," or "heavens" vs. "earth"? That dichotomy is merely a matter of scale. What if we're all part of the same holistic system?

I certainly agree to that.

Consider that we can only understand the sky through our culture-bound beliefs, be they religion, astral fatalism, or science. Science is a cultural product. In fact, yesterday's scientific findings are often discarded with discoveries of new scientific findings that seem more accurate.

Yes, religions and science are both culture-based attempts to make sense out of the world we live in. They are equally founded on actual perception, from different perspectives, but each valid in its own right.

However, none of them is infalllible, due to human limitations to adequately perceiving and defining the truth.

And yes, there is "the inner sky," which is the only way we can possibly understand astrology.

There certainly is. According to ancient understanding, the "inner sky" is a reflection of the outer sky (Microcosm/Macrocosm concept). With the words of Paracelsus: "The world is the Macrocosm and man the Microcosm, and the elements of all that exists in the former exist in the latter."

So to come back to the topic, I find it much harder to believe in some sort of unprovable fatalism than to consider whether an astrologer had a hand in setting the Ukraine invasion time and date.

That the supposition of the Microcosm following the Macrocosm would necessarily lead to fatalism is a non-sequitur. The reason being that the archetypal patterns of the latter can find expression in the former in so many different ways and on so many different levels - some of which are subject to our will.

That's why it's so hard to make exact predictions based on astrology.

I've never heard that Vladimir Putin accepts astrology but he certainly accepts metaphysical teachings.

Cf. the teachings of the Russian Orthodox patriarch Kirill with his belief in the destiny of a greater Russia. (“Russkiy mir")

"The trouble is that the twin tyrants of the post-Bolshevik state and post-Czarist church have been dogmatically and doggedly tone-deaf in recent decades to the free world’s developments, which they consider and condemn as shades of evil in a fallen world. There is indeed religious symbolism behind the territorial invasion of Ukraine by Russia, but it reflects the much larger metaphysical fantasy of the spiritual salvation of the whole world."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... raine-war/

Then the commanding officer of the invasion itself may have asked for an electional reading, independently of the Kremlin.

Is this conjecture? Certainly. But the charts of the invasion plus Ukraine's founding are hard to explain otherwise.

It's even harder to explain a bunch of unprovable ideas about astral determinism.