I have another real estate query I will share, since I know others like a horary challenge/share/education anyway.

There is a house I like that was for sale in Oct and was taken but the sale fell through today. I was considering it back in Oct and was happy to see it again. I sent a message to my realtor that I want her opinion on it and if she thinks I have a chance of buying it. After I emailed her I asked the question, "is the green house a good purchase opportunity?" Within the question I was hoping to learn more about the quality of the property and if it had more pros than cons, if I would be happy with it and if the buy would have major issues to watch out for. The home is older but has been updated a bit.



The hour ruler is Venus, so there is not hour agreement, but first thing I noticed was the ascendant lord was the Sun dignified by triplicity in the 4th house of the matter (property). This does suggest some rootedness and the hour ruler is on the 4th cusp. I took Sun dignified in the 4th as me liking the property and potential to be happy with the place. The Sun is classically considered a benefic when dignified. Also, the Sun applies to trine and receive the 4th lord, Mars, by exaltation. Likewise, Moon is translating light of Sun to Mars and is received by Mars in the 9th house. I think of Mars in the 9th dignified in a night chart as a not so bad malefic, but it could also show the home will be competitive to buy. This trine could suggest I may be able to procure the home though. Moon-Sun trines are considered strong positives in horary, as the "lights" of a chart and showing opportunity for something. Lilly also gives the Moon's last aspect to the buyer and the next aspect to the seller, so it is translating light between them with reception and a conjunction, the most powerful for perfection.

The 2nd and 8th lord are aspecting but the 2nd lord is peregrine, the 8th lord is in fall and the 7th lord of the selling process is also Saturn. I would expect a lot of delay and trouble based on this and the angles are fixed too, suggesting a long process. Likewise, Neptune is in the 8th house and could suggest some confusion during the loan process. I am already having issues with my realtor, who I might end up not working with anymore, depending on how she handles my last email for this house.

The 10th lord is in detriment in the 4th, suggesting the price is a good deal and it is fixed so my guess is they won't go lower. Most homes are going for over asking price, so this would not be a surprise. Lilly says Venus (or Jupiter or NN) in the 4th is a sign of a prosperous opportunity.

Overall, the horary seems to suggest the home is a decent purchase and might be worth the effort. I will update either way. It may just get snatched up like a lot of other homes.

I did read something foreboding here that fits this chart but it isn't clear to me why this is bad. I am inferring from the article the land is dry, there is risk of fire, loss, thieves. The home is in a sunny area and the backyard is dry dirt (it needs work):

And al-Kindi said, do not let a malefic be in the 9th or first or 11th, nor let the 4th house [domicile?] be a fiery one, nor let a fiery planet be in it, and especially if it were cadent from the benefics. And if the 4th house [domicile?] were a watery sign, beware lest Saturn aspect it. And you must beware lest the Lord of the 10th be a malefic. For the Ascendant and its Lord signify the land itself which someone buys, and its possession and the usefulness of it. The 10th or 11th and its Lord signify whatever is erected from it above the earth and from its surface, like trees and other things born of the earth which grow old in it. Indeed the 7th and its Lord signify its cultivators.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/4elect.html

Hello Tanit,
Your hints are well formulated as usual with good indicators.
Additional factors to consider
** Ruler of the 4th in the 9th. You say competitive to buy. Yes! and also legal issues with the land and/or owner(s) of the house. Some family matters on the owner's side needs to be addressed as they are in the 12th from the 7th.
** The Moon is besieged between Saturn and Mars and it will translate the light from MarsL4 and making a last square to SaturnL7. And Saturn, although in the Triplicity and Face of the Sun is also in the Detriment of the Moon.
It suggests the closing deal will not materialize.
** And SaturnL7 in turned 12th is about to change sign. The owner will not land where he wants with the sale.

Wishing you all the best to settle down with your projects!
Ouranos

The Moon is besieged between Saturn and Mars

In order to be besieged it would have to have last separated from a malefic and next apply to one. It last separated from the Sun, the ASC ruler. This is not classical besiegment.

Ruler of the 4th in the 9th. You say competitive to buy. Yes! and also legal issues with the land and/or owner(s) of the house. Some family matters on the owner's side needs to be addressed as they are in the 12th from the 7th.

I was wondering the same about the 9th suggesting legal matters. That alone is enough to make me reconsider but the realtor I was working with is also ghosting me (I think this is Saturn) so I may need to find someone else, and by the time I do it will likely just sell, unless I am proactive and go directly through the a real estate website and have them assign me a realtor.

Regarding the 9th House placement of MarsL4 (Dignified by Sign, Debilitated by being Cadent), Morin de Villefranche says:
"Essential dignity shows you are capable of a good relationship but accidental debility shows poor circumstances that do not allow it or inhibit it from happening."

As for besiegement
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/beseiged.html
What difference do you make of it? According to your own experience, do you favor besiegement by aspect?

Thanks,
Ouranos

Hi Tanit, can I ask a general question? Sorry to barge in on your thread like this. How come this question is valid? I ask because you mentioned that this is another real estate question, and when I did the same thing for jobs I was applying for this year, the charts quickly became invalid and the insights were correct. I'm just wondering out of curiosity. Thanks!

Regarding the 9th House placement of MarsL4 (Dignified by Sign, Debilitated by being Cadent), Morin de Villefranche says:
"Essential dignity shows you are capable of a good relationship but accidental debility shows poor circumstances that do not allow it or inhibit it from happening."

I know what accidental and essential debilities and dignities mean but Mars here seems to be referencing something specific in the 9th. The 9th is not a debility so I am not sure what you mean. Lilly gives it accidental dignity 2+. I think it may be relating to my grad school app that I will get results for in Jan. It could be that I am accepted and this home is far away from the program and would be an impediment.

I am not sure about the 9th but the home is likely to sell fast anyway regardless of issues and I think Mars describes that well.

As for besiegement
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/beseiged.html
What difference do you make of it? According to your own experience, do you favor besiegement by aspect?

Both Lilly and Bonatti agree with me that it needs to be separating and applying to a malefic without a planet between them interfering. The difference between the two relates to aspect type. Lilly is describing a conjunction only here. I have seen besiegment relevant with Bonatti's usage and not just conjunction.

Hi Tanit, can I ask a general question? Sorry to barge in on your thread like this. How come this question is valid? I ask because you mentioned that this is another real estate question, and when I did the same thing for jobs I was applying for this year, the charts quickly became invalid and the insights were correct. I'm just wondering out of curiosity. Thanks!

I vaguely remember the threads but I recall some confusion with dates and times. Did you ask about the same job more than once? These are very different property types, several months apart and in different geographical regions.

I haven't and this job isn't mine, it's a friend. But earlier this year I did myself, I was asking like like crazy. I basically banned myself from horary for the year. Same with my friend. Okay, that's helpful. Thank you!

I watched a Youtube yesterday from Anthony Louis (Lilly's horary on whether he could purchase a property or not), which is appropriate for what you are saying. It is true that you should not keep asking questions about the same matter and should consider the issue without horary first. I do think horary can be good for major life decisions, though and in both cases I was considering purchasing the most expensive thing I have ever bought, so I figure if horary is ever going to help me now would be a good time to do that.

The ascendant lord dwells in House 4. Lord 4 beholds the ascendant by sign. Moon is received by the dispositor and translates between you and the house. All significators are in good houses except the seller. The chart seems to readily give a good vibe.

Significators being cadent could well mean the deal would come slow. The seller (or agent) may prove to be difficult to reach, being an infortune cadent like that. I wonder if he would be very honest, too, because he is not angular or in his own house. (The idea is William Thrasher's, see Jubar Astrologicum, London:1671, page 132, House 4 matters).

I thought Sun in Sagittarius only was so dignified in a day chart. Is it your experience that day triplicity works in a night chart too? Either way, yes Bonatti said Sun is a fortune unless it opposes or combusts a significator.

Good luck!

Amelia

Update: the property just sold. I missed out on even trying due to an absent realtor. That was what I expected. Fire generally indicates something happening fast and Aries is proactive, in my experience.


Regarding triplicity rulers, I would look here. I use the fire triplicities for the Sun in day or night.
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/triplicities.html

Sorry to hear that. I wonder why the translation didn't work. Moon is in orb with both, though peregrine herself both Sun and Mars receive her. Saturn being cadent from all these angles certainly isn't helpful, but it is dignified after all, and Jupiter should help take off some of his malice if any. It honestly surprised me a bit.

Perhaps a high concentration of cadent planets like this (when these houses aren't immediately pertinent) just gives too soft an energy in securing a deal. Cadent means falling or descending in influence. The Moon is ruling the 12th, too.

Amelia