Hi ,

one of the characteristics which I find so fascinating about astrology is how in the Universe everything is inter-connected.

For example - karmic relationships - they are reflected not only in the synastry aspects - but they show up also in the past life regression and so on.

Any real life stories, mystical love relationships - you are welcome to write it here!

One of the reasons for two of my horary questions on the horary forum are two karmic relationships - always connected with telepathy as well..

LittleMermaid .

Excuse me, but would you mind indicating why you think some things are karmic and others (presumably) aren't?

It's hard enough doing astrology in the here and now, where the object of our interest can be compared to our inferences about it. So please, if you are going to launch into past-life connections, please indicate your reasons for doing so.

Personally, I am trying to get off karma, not get on it or in it or under it.

Coder,
I understand why some people seek "Karma" as the answer to questions about life and relationships. It's a romantic idea and an easy answer.

But I agree with you wholeheartedly..... it's enough to deal with the here and now.... and the here and now is what astrologers are supposed to be dealing with.... that's why we need birth times and places to do our job correctly.

All the answers are in the chart. I think getting "out of the science" into the realm of "Neptune" is dangerous if you are looking for truth in a chart.
If you believe in Karma then you believe in reincarnation and therefore believe that it's likely that all the people you have any sort of relationship with in this life have been "with you" in past lives. But that won't give you a practical truthful answer about "why" something is happening in the "here and now." That's what transits are for.

I find that for some, the science of astrology is not enough....though it's been enough to keep me fascinated for decades.... some need to go off to other realms and possibilities, but in my opinion, that just keeps one from becoming adept at the science of astrology.
Lainie

Hi Little Mermaid,

I think that karma is like the roots of a tree, it is the stuff of the past from which we are made. The past is in the present when something of the past materialised and has not yet dissolved, or been resolved. For about three years I felt my life was entirely 'karmic' I had 2 very deep relationships with a lot of saturn aspects and before I had time to put them on the computer my instinct was these where old friends and some debt was to be settled. This was when transiting saturn was opposite a stellium of personal planets. Somthing had to be lived.

I have had very distinct and real experiences of karma and the resolution of karma. They say karma has a lot to do with the 12th house and this is the realm of the unseen, intuitive unknown known. It is not the realm of absolutes. If we think that the present is just the fruiting or harvest of the tree, or its aspiration to the light, presence is just a concept.

The idea that using karma as an answer, and it being easy and romantic, seems to me to be an 'easy and romantic' response to something people have a very real and at times difficult experience of.

Goodluck

Hi all,

Here for a little rescue work on the concept of karma, which has come to us from the East but that doesn't make it flakey. Karma is from Sanskrit root meaning "action". Every action we commit sets reactions in motion ... that's karma. No more or less mystical than physics. And the law of karma is as here and now as it gets. Which is not to say that its workings are not mysterious.

And I do think all relationships are karmic just as everything that happens to us is the result of some past action on our part.

I see the birth chart as a reflection of our karma .. what brought us to be born at a particular moment and place ... Tibetan Buddhists call it "the fierce red winds of karma" that blow us to our next rebirth. Oops, now I'm talking about reincarnation, another concept that's come up for some dissing ...

Tara

The title of a possible song. I am new here. You said we could post something if we had a karmic relationship.

female born december 6/1964/kirkland lake ontario canada/time of birth 21.57
male born november 10/1971/new orleans mississipi usa/time unkown

(met in asian country/he a newly recruited navy doctor/she a teacher of language and artist).

When they met the female says there was a definete feeling of something very powerful. Since it happened 6 years ago. She is not sure if it was instant recog or both recog and electricity snapping between. Perhaps both I think.
These two people met in november of 2000. She took him home and he told her the next he had just gotten married.

Then he invited her later in december of 2000 to meet up and she let things go on between them. Next day he sat and told her that he and his newly bethroded were going to have their white picket fence/that he would eventually probably be mister mom after she had the two.point five kids. He was stationed in an asian country and she had not arrived yet. She the newly bethroded is a lawyer and he is a doctor. The female did not beleive him and was hurt by the way he was treating her so she decided to let it go and move on. She did. At some point he was angry with her that she had slept with someone else without any protection. She was shocked thinking it was over between them. Did he mean to try to be with her again when he was now married. She even met the woman. He had also invited her to a house party they were throwing and he said please do not do anything to make her think we have been together in some way. She never went to the party. On and on. She had xmas party at her home at some other time. He came with another doctor friend from the place they worked for the us government. Everytime she sees this other particular doctor he always makes a comment on how there is the particular french canadian girl. Thought the girl or the woman in questions is older the the male. They kept in touch via email and hung out occasionaly. He divorced the lawyer. Got promoted and was sent back to a training in america. Before he left the country in question where he was originally stationed he calls her noen night. Its 2am and she has tonsilitis. He tells her come and visit and I will fix you up with all the meds you need to get rid of the tonsilities. Now he is stationed in another country not far from the othe asian country. He gives her a cookbook from New orleans and has written in it
keep in touch, we will always be kin, love Stephen and his email.
she says goodbye.no tears...here....From 2004 to the last time they saw each other again he keeps in touch.
He sends mail/pictures of his travels or when he was in hyperbaric training. She sends him some things. One was a song and he emails telling her. I realise how much I miss you and you have no idea how much you mean to me. He comes to the asian country where she lives for the doctor friend they both know who for his wedding. The meet up, go out, she was going to stay with him but they are not allowed to stay, so he drives her home which a bit of a ways away. They are together again. The woman in question feels very strongly and deeply about this man. She feels this is the guy she would marry. She has never really wanted to marry anyone before. He is here again. Why?
What is the connection.
Without a birth time for him it is difficult to get the complete picture.
But there are some interesting things.
He has his true node in aquarius. He either has a virgo moon or a leo moon. She can not tell because for a scorpio he is really gregarious. A very warm personality. Strong and powerful and very nice to be around.
Basically a good man. Could he be a leo ascendant like her with a moon in virgo. Which would explain the divorce happening so quickly just around his saturn return. His saturn happens to be in gemini and she has a true node in gemini. Her saturn his in aquarius. He is a very serious personality. The warm side is his social side. This is a very complicated scorpio. His mars is in pisces and hers is in virgo. His venus in sagatarius and he sun in sag. Her venus in scorpio and he is a scorpio.
His juno in libra. She is more venusian (most aspected planets are venus and neptune in the chart). Her juno is in sag. He has a ton of planets in sag. The moon connection is not certain. Her vertex is 17 degrees and his sun is at 17 degrees. Are there any karmic connections here.
moon magic

I have to say the responses seemed a bit odd to me. What is astrology if not the study of what is predestined? if you dont believe in Karma how can you even attempt astrology. I admit the terminology can get a bit irritating, and it is entirely to easy to say and then karma happened and that's why, instead of following through all the determinations, But really, what else is it? if you say something is determined, that is a karmic value, whether it is from a former life or just from astrological determination, does it matter?

okay just my two cents worth. I do understand the irritation with the language, it gets too goo-ee for the detail oriented, but it is, as far as I can tell, a valid alternative description of astrology.

Granny

granny_skot wrote:

What is astrology if not the study of what is predestined? if you dont believe in Karma how can you even attempt astrology.

If you believe in Karma, how can you be bothered with astrology? Che sera, sera. How can it help to see the guillotine falling (in slo-mo) - in that fraction of a second perhaps you see yourself suddenly enlightened like Buddha, or thrown from your horse like St Paul? But perhaps not - they say you don't get to hear the bullet which kills you.

That there would seem (to me) to be something termed generally a "sixth sense" does not imply the logical need for "Karma" as an explanatory principle.

If you believe in Karma, how can you be bothered with astrology? Che sera, sera.

I suppose it depends on your idea of karma. We use such words very loosely and without taking into account the fuller meaning when we do use them. And can karma only apply when you believe in reincarnation? What does a karmic relationship mean anyway and how could we judge one using astrology? It's like the belief that you can use astrology to determine past lives. There is no way of knowing whether you are right or not.
It's a similar argument to fate. It depends on what your definition of fate is. The Stoic idea of fate is that you do what the gods require of you willingly. This is why they were actually quite big on divination. Many argue that if we are all subject to fate then there is no need for astrology or other forms of divination. But the idea of divination during these times was not to predict the future but to ascertain what it was that the gods wanted from them. Divinatory practices were written into the constitution of the Roman Senate and augurs were government positions. They did nothing without consulting the auspices. However, it wasn't so much to predict but to ask the gods if what they had planned was okay by them. If they got favourable signs they proceeded with the plan. If they got a bad sign, they performed the task (usually liver divination) three times. If it still came out inauspicious they would not proceed. Even though Stoics believed strongly that their lives were fated, they wanted to move towards their fate willingly. In a similar vein, if your definition of karma is that we reap what we sow, it is very important to find out what you should be doing. The word fate often has very negative connotations. We use the word to denote bad things happening. But there was also good fate. And this was one of the ideas behind divination. It was not to avoid bad things happening. The gods looked favourable on anyone who would approach their fate willingly. If they understood what was required of them they could prepare themselves for it.

they say you don't get to hear the bullet which kills you.

Ah, but do you remember the episode of M*A*S*H where there was a visit to the 4077th from a guy who was writing a book something along the lines of 'You Never Hear the Bullet'? He then came back wounded and said to Hawkeye just before he died 'I heard the bullet' and Hawkeye says 'so you'll change the title of your book. ' Yep, I was a bit of a fan of that show.

Well actually what is destined to occur, and how you choose to respond are two different things, if you know what is to occur, then you may be prepared to respond in a better manner. for instance, things which used to be a death sentence to humans in general, like Pnemonia (sp?) can be cured with medicines now (for the most part) if you know in advance that you have a physically trying time approaching, the predetermination that you will be suseptible to a deadly illness, you might not decide to go out that night when you aren't feeling all that well and rest instead, thereby being physically stronger to fight that deadly illness. or in Presidents REagans case, have better medical hlep available and not die in office, as he surely would have when Hinkley shot him. it was far more serious than let on. So again I say, if you dont believe in the stars determining what comes into your life, what the heck are you looking at astrology for? Karma might be a word you are not fond of, as unlearned fluffy kids bandy the word about, but it is still predetermination, which is also what astrology is about... not to be confused with the free will to RESPOND to things that occur in that wheel. though most people tend to be rather predictable.

Granny

I have had two relationships that I considered karmic. The way I handled the especially difficult one, was to try and not be attatched to it. He was born 12/24/62 and I am 9/29/62. Our rising sign was exactly the same 29.45 Virgo. In the end I was able to stop seeing him, because I realized he could not become (what I saw as hidden potential). The funny thing is he thinks he used me, even though he loved me, and I know he loved me, even though he used me! My mantra at the time was, "I'm going to be as open and honest as possible, 'cause I don't want to go through this again." I have absolutely no attachment left to that relationship. The other one is still an attachment. The man's birthday is 5/10/60 and unfortunately I've been told there is too much feeling between us (or on my side!) That one I just ignore as much as possible. If it was possible to interact with him more frequently I believe it would change, but since we live in different places and are on different social levels it will probably never happen. Sorry if this is too long, just responding to the original question!

It is possible to believe in fate and also believe in the power of free will and choice. For me the chart is a map of our fate, if it is not read. Once we make the choice to read the map, to become aware of ourselves, we then take that fate into our hands and can become the masters of our own destiny. When we are a child we do not have the kind of choices we begin to have as we grow up. So seeds are sown and they have to be lived out. The Magic for me is the point at which we recognise this, and surrender to it...... something happens...... some kind of alchemy and then we begin to sew our own seeds. I think it is possible to beleive in fate without then feeling helpless about our lives; victims of the guillotine, and believe in free will. They are not mutually exclusive.
I also think it is totally valid to have an experience and value it as real even if it can not be tested and proved. There are plenty of things in life we accept without a thought that can not actually be proved.
How do we interpret Pluto in the chart, or neptune or the 12th house or saturn if we don't then describe something fated, in the past, beyond our conscious control etc...?