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Consideration: when Scorpio ascends

 
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 267

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject: Consideration: when Scorpio ascends Reply with quote

Have you had a chart that brought a good outcome when scorpio ascended? What is your experience with this consideration before judgment? The ancients said the matter would come to no good end and that the placement signified falsity.

Bonatti:

Quote:
The 91st Consideration is, To observe in Questions or Nativities, whether Mars be in any of the Angles of the Figure, especially in Fixed Signs; or when Scorpio Ascends, for then he destroys all the good signified by that question, or at least much impedes and diminishes it; Unless Jupiter behold him with a Trine or Sextile; for then his malice is mitigated; but yet as Jupiter is either strong or weak.

The Centiloquium of Hermes Trismegistus:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/centiloquium2.html

Quote:
Give not judgment, neither elect anything, while Scorpio is ascending, neither when the angles are oblique or crooked, or if Mars be in the ascendant; the event will prove cross, and the matter come to no good end; for Scorpio is a sign of falsity.


In my personal experience, a scorpio ascendant seemed to indicate something illegitimate: dubious nature of the relationship in question, a development that might not be in the querent's interest to know, overstepping some kind of moral bounds, etc.

One of my charts did indeed come to nothing even though there were good aspects between the significators. (It had another consideration mentioned in the quotes above: Mars in ascendant. It was also a night chart with all the planets below the horizon and hence some of them out of sect.)

Most other charts are open cases and I might update this thread as fit.

I would appreciate any insight.

Amelia


Last edited by AmeliaS on Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 567

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Amelia,
Hermes Trismegistus's 9th consideration seems a bit restrictive or should I say as a lot of Aphorisms regarding Mars and Saturn.

My approach would be to consider the nature of the question itself.
If you are asking a question about the castration of an animal, the act might be painful but it will describe the nature and the purpose of the question.
The 1st decan of Scorpio is in the Via Combusta and under the double rulership of Mars which might indicate that the querent may be obsessively preoccupied with the matter and unable to see the forest for the trees and Mars being hot and dry in a Water sign can heat up the situation to a 'boiling point'.

Anthony Louis, in one of his reading, is talking about a client who was launching his new astrological coaching practice wishing to explore in-depth psychological issues. He launched it with 10 degree Scorpio rising, conjunct Fixed Star Acrux: (Interest in astrology and spirituality, metaphysics, sacrifice. Occult; Jupiter.) Doesn't sound bad to me as long as you are willing to go in that direction.

Abu Ma'sar is talking about the Friendships of the Stars in his Libri Mysteriorum, II, 167
1) Cancer is opposite to Scorpio because the Stars that are in these Signs are opposite to each other. We know how important the Moon is in Horary, suggesting here that the result might be different than what is expected. Good or bad depends on the chart itself.
2) The second condition of friendship is when one Star partially shares the essence of another, as is the case with Mercury and Mars. A lawyer in court representing a younger person might be a good match.
3) The last condition of friendship is given by the union of a Star with another in a place where it has some right of dominance: Saturn, for example, when it descends in latitude it becomes cold and wet and, therefore, is in line with the Moon and with Venus and this is the reason why it does not offend or harm them; and the Moon, when its light increases and has an additive number, is in line with the Sun and the brightest Stars. There are also some signs that, although configured according to a square aspect, are in agreement with each other, as is the case with Taurus and Aquarius or Leo or Scorpio since they are born at the same time; or also of Taurus and Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius who are born at the same points on the horizon.
(Quoted from Paulo Alexandre Silva's translation)
He is talking here of Antiscia.

Further to that in II, 181 The Moon and Venus are not much harmed in their humiliations:(Scorpio) in fact, the Moon humbles itself in Scorpio and Scorpio is in its triangle and shares the nature of the Moon and has a trine with Crab that is home to the Moon. Not so bad if you are willing to apologize and be a fair player.

As you mentioned, there might be some moral bounds involved (or a clash in values to be faced). My personal experience with Scorpios, I have a quote to recognize them 'They play dead'. They stand still, like if nothing was going on around them but they are the ones whom you need in emergency room because they can cut short when a decision needs to be taken, cold-blood.

Blessings,
Ouranos
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 267

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, great information, Ouranos. That first-magnitude star Acrux is conjunct the ascendant in one of my romance charts indeed though I'm not sure how to interpret it. It, as you said, seems to have more to do with astrology and religion, etc. In any case, now that you've told me this star is of the nature of Jupiter, I wonder if it perhaps mitigates the malignant nature of the Scorpio ascendant even though the subject matter isn't occults. I couldn't find any source that said so, though.

Bonatti says that if Jupiter beholds Mars in the ascendant by trine or sextile, and if Jupiter is strong, the malice of mars is much reduced..

Ps I also read Bernadette Brady's website you quoted in the traditional forum and found the article on fixed star helpful. Just so you know your contribution didn't go unrecognised!

Amelia
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Amelia!
Any fixed star conjunct the ASC will color the nature of the querent or the question itself.
Exemple: Acrux
It might be that the querent is interested by the occult or because of the nature of Jupiter, religious, moral beliefs will be a factor in the question. Or that lawyers, court or justice will be involved. Even in-laws can be in the picture.

So much can be found with Fixed Stars
If you are looking for a meaningful approach to it, please watch this video from Christian Koenig delivered in 2018 at The Institute of Vedic Astrology in India.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdEZOj1PBLI&ab_channel=IVCConferenceKrishnamurtiInstituteofAstrology

Kind regards,
Ouranos
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1178

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as having charts where we had good results, I often get Scorpio rising for a friend who has Scorpio rising in her natal and one example was a horary when she lost her cat, which she later located. Unfortunately, the chart expired but there is written evidence in the post that it had Scorpio rising. I would not assume it is negative on its own, since it could just describe the querent. Sometimes it can indicate such things as deception.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5436[/list]
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 267

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit - thank you. Charts can hardly get any better than promising a lost cat would come back! Lala Happy

Quote:
I would not assume it is negative on its own, since it could just describe the querent.


Sounds great. Below I quote William Lilly's description of Scorpio, which might be useful for those who stumble upon this thread:

Scorpio is a cold, watry, nocturnal, flegmatick, feminine sign... usually it doth represent subtill, deceitfull men.

FORM AND DESCRIPTION. A corpulent, strong, able Body, somewhat a broad or square Face, a dusky muddy complexion, and sad, dark Hair, much and crisping; an hairy Body, somewhat bow-legged, short necked, a squat, wel-trussed Fellow.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 368

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Consideration: when Scorpio ascends Reply with quote

AmeliaS wrote:
Have you had a chart that brought a good outcome when scorpio ascended? What is your experience with this consideration before judgment? The ancients said the matter would come to no good end and that the placement signified falsity.


Hello Amelia,

Yes, I have a chart & question posted here at the forum that came to a satisfying ending; you and Ouranos might be interested in analyzing it.

From my point of view the word "falsity" describes the tax collector's office. As for me and my dog, we are both peregrine from their point of view because I am not doing what they wanted me to do (I am defiant) and the dog is unlicensed.

An excerpt from that thread:


"Do we have to pay a late fee? (A dog license renewal)

The chart was done on Tuesday, 19 Sept. 2017 @10:37am.
San Francisco, California (US) I was feeling very frustrated and ready to <BITE> Evil or Very Mad the person who sent us the Final Notice for Dog License Renewal.

I am Scorpio and my dog is Aries. Our significator Mars is peregrine and sitting in 10th house (Leo) with conjunct Mercury who rules 11th house (Virgo). L10, the Sun conjunct and combusted the Moon. Both planets are in 11th house opposing Chiron. I was disgusted about our city's incompetent Tax Collector Office.

On July 4, 2017 we sent our check by certified mail to City and County Tax Collector for a three year dog license renewal. Our bank record shows on July 6 (that's two days later) the check was cashed (before the official due date).

On Monday September 18th (that's 74 days after the check was cashed) we received the Final Notice from the City and County Tax Collector asking us to renew the license once more meaning, to include another check plus this time a late fee to the Tax Collector's office. The reason was it's taken more than 30 days to send in the spay/neuter certificate.

We have a 13 year old dog who has been neutered since he was five months old (he was born on Sept. 4, 2004) and it has been already in the city's record.
"


The chart and the rest of that incident:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9798
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 368

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Consideration: when Scorpio ascends Reply with quote

Part of Fortune wrote:


On July 4, 2017 we sent our check by certified mail to City and County Tax Collector for a three year dog license renewal. Our bank record shows on July 6 (that's two days later) the check was cashed (before the official due date).




I realized the check was dated July 4, 2017 but we must have sent it the day after on July 5, 2017 because July 4th was our national holiday and the post office was closed.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 267

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so for the chart, PoF. The L8-Moon-L2 translation as brilliantly interpreted by Tanit proves that squares can work even with an infortune involved, given dignity and reception. An occupant of a house (House 2 Saturn here) can bring perfection. Most important of all, free will matters: in the midst of of so much delay and trouble, as indicated by afflicted planets in house 10 and the difficult Moon-Saturn square - it was mutual kindness and sympathy that allowed the matter to conclude on such a warm note!

Lastly, the ascendant is conjunct Acrux, the star ruling legal issues and of the nature of fortunate Jupiter.

I'm grateful for your contribution, all of you. Scorpio ascendant isn't so bad after all. It is still capable of good tidings!

Amelia
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you POF for sharing your chart and experience in true Scorpio fashion!

Ouranos
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Amelia and Ouranus,

Thank you!

I went back and re-read my thread. It's interesting to find things I missed back then, but now I’m able to spot my own mistakes (e.g. July 4) and even able to analyze the situation. Scorpio ascendant, a case of Falsity? City Tax Collector’s office for sure. My mistake? I think it is the confusion created by Mars/Neptune opposition.


AmeliaS wrote:
- it was mutual kindness and sympathy that allowed the matter to conclude on such a warm note!

Amelia, I think that nice supervisor who helped us is represented by Venus. I considered this at the time, but I did not pursue it further (regarding Venus affair). I guess I was so glad that the incident with the tax collector was solved.


Ouranos wrote:
Thank you POF for sharing your chart and experience in true Scorpio fashion! Ouranos

You bet! I was quite obsessed, wasn’t I?

And Ouranos, guess what, looks like that Scorpio experience is back! Thanks to Amelia Wink , I’m restarting it. This time focused on that nice supervisor . . . where in the chart does she fit in?


Part of Fortune wrote:

I wonder if that nice female supervisor could be represented by Venus (7th) at the top of the chart . . .?

( Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:04 am)
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9798

Here, Venus is at 29:37’ conjunct Regulus in 10th house (also Venus is the most elevated planet in my dog license chart). She is the lord of 7th and 12th house, however, the chart shows, she is placed in 10th which represents Government house. From my view, the nice supervisor who helped us is 7th house person hence, she is represented by Venus. She works in the City government and she is a supervisor (count 10 from H10 = H7).

Our 2nd house cusp is ruled by Jupiter (in Libra) and co-ruled by Saturn (in Sagittarius) and they are in mixed mutual reception. To narrow it down, this nice supervisor works at the Animal Care and Control department. It’s no surprise that her turned 6th house of animal welfare (count 6 from radical H7 = H12) is where our L2 Jupiter and PoF (money and luck) are placed.

I think L7 Venus conjunct Regulus in H10 helped us a lot! There is separating sextile between Venus and L2 Jupiter as well as separating trine between Venus and Saturn, the co-ruler of 2nd house.

The money went to Animal Care and Control instead to Tax Collector’s Office, therefore, “symbolically” the nice supervisor is the one who received our money because Venus is dispositor of Jupiter. Also, Venus is approaching sextile to PoF and PoF is disposited by Mars (we really praised her and her assistant in our thank you card).
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 567

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may add, Venus culminating (29 Leo) while Fixed Star Accux is rising (10 Scorpio).
Thanks to POF for pointing that out, I had the wrong star rising.
Using the method developed by Bernadette Brady in her book Brady’s Book of Fixed Stars (1998)
You look at the planet and the Fixed Star closest to the Angles for which she said will be used in a Paran relationship.
Here we can observe Venus culminating on the meridian at the same time that you have Acrux rising.

"Adrux is said to give perseverance, but many burdens, trials and responsibilities... and the gift of successful investigation of the hidden side of things. " (Robson) All eased up with a Venus influence.

Cheers!
Ouranos
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