skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
The Life & Work of Vettius Valens
by Deborah Houlding
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Joe Biden's Birth Time Controversy

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane & Financial Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5241
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:49 pm    Post subject: Joe Biden's Birth Time Controversy Reply with quote

Joe Biden’s chart is only rated A in Astrodatabank ‘from memory’. The Astrodatabank source notes state: ''Marion March quotes Celeste Longacre for 8:30 AM from him in "Welcome to the Planet Earth," 4/1987''. So the time given is not even a direct recollection of the birth time by Biden given to that astrologer.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Biden,_Joe

I am generally suspicious of birth times without authentication from a birth certificate rounded off to the hour or half hour. Moreover, I have observed completely contradictory delineations of Biden’s transits based on the 08.30am time given.

However, Biden’s time of birth could chart could plausibly be earlier or later than the time given. I suggested some weeks ago on social media that Biden’s chart only needed to a few minutes earlier than the time given to be Scorpio rising. Since then I have encountered two astrologers who have actually proposed a Scorpio rising chart. In particular Peter Novak (USA) has rectified the chart to Scorpio rising with a time of 07.35am which gives an ASC of 22 Scorpio conjunct Biden’s Mercury.

The traditional astrologer Ehsan Khazeni (Iran) has proposed a time of 8.05am placing Biden’s ASC on his sun at 28 Scorpio conjunct his Sun/Venus conjunction.

Other astrologers have rectified the chart with a Sagittarius rising chart but proposed different times. For example the astrologer Alphee Lavoie (USA) has proposed a time of 09.19am. This later ASC put Saturn Rx much closer to the DESC in the chart.

Finally, the astrologer Mario Raskovsky (Argentina) has rectified the chart to closer to the Astrodatabank time using 08.27am.

On balance I do think think Biden’s ever smiling personality does seem more consistent with a Sagittarius rising chart. Equally, his history of gaffs do seem to fit the sign.

But perhaps the crucial point is which chart delineates the tragedy in Biden’s life with the loss of his first wife and child in a car crash and the later death of a son to cancer and the controversy over his son Hunter Biden. All this points to a weakened 5th and 7th house ruler. Using a whole sign approach this would be consistent with Lord 5 (Mars) and Lord 7 (Mercury) in the 12th house.

In contrast in a Scorpio rising chart gives Lord 5 as an exalted Jupiter by Whole Sign or Equal houses which seems improbable to me. However, those using a late Scorpio rising chart with quadrant houses may still have Mars as Lord 5.

Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly


Last edited by Mark on Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 1060
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal opinion is that Biden has a nearly exact conjunction of Venus/Sun on the ascendant trine to Jupiter which is making a convincing impression of Sag rising. In Hellenistic technique if Sag rises, all 3 trigon lords fall cadent as well as fortune. Move it to Sco rising and all trigon lords are angular as well as fortune.

Valens considered eminence an important first examination to assess how the malefics operate in the chart.
_________________
Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 381

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Joe Biden's Birth Time Controversy Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

In contrast in a Scorpio rising chart gives Lord 5 as an exalted Jupiter by Whole Sign or Equal houses which seems improbable to me.


But it is possible and more logical that he has Scorpio AC.

According to the concept of "Badhakesh", moon and Jupiter would be most harmful planets for Biden.

The term badhak means obstruction. The sign in the eleventh from movable signs, ninth from fixed signs and seventh from dual signs are their badhak sthanas (places of obstruction).

Sign : Scorpio
Badhakasthana : Cancer

1-

Death of Child 18 December 1972 in Hockessin (Daughter killed, car accident, aged one year)
Death of Mate 18 December 1972 in Hockessin (Wife Neilia Hunter Biden killed, car accident)


Vimsottari Dasa : Moon-Mars-Venus-Jupiter

Jupiter-period was between 17 December 1972 - 22 December 1972


2-

Death of Child 30 May 2015 (Son Beau dies of cancer)

Vimsottari Dasa : Jupiter-Venus-Mars-Saturn-Jupiter

Jupiter sub-period was between 30 May 2015 (03:48:23) - 31 May 2015 (09:24:19)


Used :

Krishnamurti Ayanamsa
Definition of year in dasas : True sidereal solar years
_________________
http://cemalcicek.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 381

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My correction is 08:29:39

here :

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11108
_________________
http://cemalcicek.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1779
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoidsoft wrote:
Quote:
My personal opinion is that Biden has a nearly exact conjunction of Venus/Sun on the ascendant trine to Jupiter which is making a convincing impression of Sag rising. In Hellenistic technique if Sag rises, all 3 trigon lords fall cadent as well as fortune. Move it to Sco rising and all trigon lords are angular as well as fortune.

Valens considered eminence an important first examination to assess how the malefics operate in the chart.

Yes, all important key points for a Scorpio ascendant.
I have an interesting solar return/ennead to post that supports the 8:30 time of birth.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm


Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:46 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1779
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biden's solar return for 1972, which is also the first 40 day ennead for the year, describes the sudden loss of his wife, Neilia, and his infant daughter Naomi in a car crash. The sidereal chart uses the Krishnamurti ayanamsa, but the house positions and planetary contacts would be exactly the same with a precession corrected tropical chart. Cusp lines mark the centers of houses. The solar return ascendant and houses are on the outer wheel, the natal chart on the inner wheel.



The MC degree degree of the chart is the degree of natal Uranus on Biden's natal 7th cusp.

Transiting Mars at 9 Lib 27 from the third house gives its full (8th house aspect) to natal Uranus at 9 Tau 49, loss of wife in crash.

Natal 8th lord, SR transiting Mercury at the nadir at 17 Sco 29 opposes natal Saturn 17 Tau 0 at the top of the chart.

Saturn is the only natal planet in Biden's chart located in a Moon's nakshatra, the Moon being the evil badhaka planet for Scorpio ascendant as Linchi has pointed out. The female child who died was Biden's third child which comes under the 9th house of Cancer ruled by the Moon. (5th is first child, 7th second child, 9th third child) Natally the Moon is on the 6th house cusp (illness and misfortune) with Fortuna.

The third partile position in the chart is Fortuna at 13 Ari 39 (with natal Moon) in the degree of the 9th cusp equally measured from the ascendant degree of 13 Leo 50. Natal Fortuna and the Moon are disposited by Mars; Transiting SR Mars from the third house (travel, transportation) opposes natal Moon by one degree.

These relatively precise solar return contacts linked to the ascendant and MC degrees strongly support an 8:30 time of birth for Biden (rectified by Linchi to 8:29:39).

Transiting Jupiter is close to cusp 5, but in a star/nakshatra of Venus. SR Venus is sandwiched between Mars and Uranus in the 3rd house.

I think the exalted (and vargottama) Jupiter as lord of the 5th house shows that Biden did have three children, two of them male, particularly fortunate in India's view of children. The loss of the third child (9th house Moon) would be shown by the Moon's position on the 6th cusp. But there have also been problems with his two sons, one of whom died. Jupiter's depositor is Moon on cusp 6 opposed by Mars from 12th.

I think Stefan's use of the lunar mansions/nakshatras indicates how important the are for a full understanding of astrological charts, and incidentally points to the 27-fold modern measurement of mansions as accurate.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm


Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1779
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
According to the concept of "Badhakesh", moon and Jupiter would be most harmful planets for Biden.

Moon as 9th lord, yes. But why Jupiter, because it's in the 9th house? I don't think I would count planets in a badhaka house as evil planets.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 381

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Linchi wrote:
Quote:
According to the concept of "Badhakesh", moon and Jupiter would be most harmful planets for Biden.

Moon as 9th lord, yes. But why Jupiter, because it's in the 9th house? I don't think I would count planets in a badhaka house as evil planets.



Because its ruler is moon. Doesn't it mean that the planet can only do what its ruler allows ?
If you have to determine maraka planets, you take 2nd and 7th rulers and the planets that are in these two houses. Why should one proceed differently with the badhaka and not take the planets that are in this house ? What kind of logic would be behind it ?
_________________
http://cemalcicek.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1779
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
Because its ruler is moon. Doesn't it mean that the planet can only do what its ruler allows ?
If you have to determine maraka planets, you take 2nd and 7th rulers and the planets that are in these two houses. Why should one proceed differently with the badhaka and not take the planets that are in this house ? What kind of logic would be behind it ?

In all my years working with Jyotish, I've never come across she idea of planets in maraka houses being marakas (killer planets). I don't think we take the natal planets in maraka houses, only the rulers of the houses. The marakas are planets, not houses as such. I think in both cases, badhakas and marakas, we are looking only at the planets themselves. Otherwise several natal planets in the 2nd or 7th house would all be killer planets. That doesn't make any sense. I have a big library of Jyotish books. If I have time, I'll check to see what the classic texts say. Stefan may also have comments on his topic.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 381

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
In all my years working with Jyotish, I've never come across she idea of planets in maraka houses being marakas (killer planets). I don't think we take the natal planets in maraka houses, only the rulers of the houses. The marakas are planets, not houses as such. I think in both cases, badhakas and marakas, we are looking only at the planets themselves. Otherwise several natal planets in the 2nd or 7th house would all be killer planets. That doesn't make any sense. I have a big library of Jyotish books. If I have time, I'll check to see what the classic texts say. Stefan may also have comments on his topic.


I just found an example of the book that Richard Houck wrote.

Richard Houck - The Astrology of Death
Horoscopes 26 - Older man whose father died

Richard Houck takes Mars, which is in the second house, as maraka. AC is Gemini.
But that does not mean that you also consider the planets in the 2nd and 7th house as maraka. Each has its own experience.
_________________
http://cemalcicek.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1779
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done a little research on the web, and the badhaka concept is mentioned in texts as old as Jataka Parijata, but there are no instructions on its application. Currently there is disagreement and various opinions among Jyotish astrologers. So like almost everything else in astrology we have a concept that isn't supported by any methodical research.

One thing we can agree on is that Biden was running the Moon's dasa when his wife and daughter were killed, and the Moon is 9th badhaka lord for Scorpio ascendant. Likewise dasa sub-lord Mars was opposing the 6th house natal Moon in the solar return/ennead when this tragic event happened.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Wade



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 97
Location: New York, NY (USA)

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Joe Biden's Birth Time Controversy Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
But perhaps the crucial point is which chart delineates the tragedy in Biden’s life with the loss of his first wife and child in a car crash and the later death of a son to cancer and the controversy over his son Hunter Biden.


For the sake of convenience, posting Biden's 8:30am chart here.



Should say that I haven't followed up on the outlined sources you mentioned Mark, but can't quite see why anyone should need to rectify out of the quoted time. His 5th-ruler, Mars, is in the turned 8th house — right on its cusp, in fact, and ruling that house. The Moon, ruler of the radical 8th house, in the 5th in applying opposition to Mars. He also has the unsettling conjunction of Uranus and Saturn, both retrograde, on the cusp of his 7th house. Saturn rules the turned 8th from the 7th, so beyond Saturn's typical difficulties, this is an accidentally problematic emplacement. Mercury (which rules the 7th) is applying to combustion and a stationary planet in the radical 7th. These alone are enough to indicate trouble or problems to matters related to these houses.

Biden's wife and daughter died in 1972. When centred for Scranton, the total solar eclipse of 10 July 1972 had 16° Scorpio rising, within a few degrees of that problematic natal Mars. Jupiter was then at 1° Capricorn, right on Biden's natal 2nd cusp (relevant as the turned 8th from the 7th). The fatal crash happened as Mercury and the Moon were opposed across Biden's natal angles (again assuming 8:30am birth time), with transiting Saturn moving between the square of Biden's natal midheaven and natal Saturn. The lunation preceding the accidental (5 Dec 1972), when centred on Hockessin, put Biden's natal 7th-ruler Mercury exactly on the descendant, and the lunation formed a very tight opposition to transiting Saturn.

The death of Biden's son fell in May 2015. There was a solar eclipse on 20 March of that year. Saturn was then at 4° Sagittarius, retrograde, on Biden's natal ascendant. Mars, ruler of the radical 5th and the turned 8th from the 5th, was at 21º Aries, transiting the cusp of the 5th house. Mars in Aries is a fitting signature for cancer of the brain. The eclipse at 29° Pisces was governed by Jupiter at 13º Leo, then retrograding back to an exact square of Biden's natal Mars. The lunation preceding Beau's death had 14º Scorpio on the midheaven, Mars and Saturn in near exact opposition across 2º Sagittarius and 4º Gemini. When set for D.C., that opposition fell on the cusps of the 5th and 11th houses. The lunation was at 23º Taurus, on Algol (another head/neck symbol), and was in partile square to the total eclipse ascendant/descendant at 23º Aquarius/Leo when set for Scranton.
_________________
http://wadecaves.com | hello@wadecaves.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane & Financial Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated