Was I duped?

1
hey guys, this is an event chart for something that happened to me yesterday.

I was on my way to a cafe yesterday morning (in a slightly dodgy part of town) when I was accosted by this gentleman, say late 40s or early 50s, saying he was in a lot of trouble and needing my help. he told me his car had run out of petrol on the motorway (nearby) and he had to move it otherwise the cops would give him a ticket. he had walked up to the street where we were standing, to get some money out of the cash machine, but it had swallowed his card.... :shock:

Not having yet had my caffeine fix for the day, my powers of assessment (and general brain) were not functioning very well...I couldn't tell whether his story was true or not. the guy was pretty insistent that I help him (and seemed pretty desperate) so I gave him some money (he was only asking for $5)...but when I walked away I felt slightly suspicious and uncertain....I was feeling about 50/50 as to whether he was genuine or not.

I cast a chart for 11:07 am, Auckland, NZ time, 20 August, 2005. Scorpio 27 degrees rising. I guess I can apply similar rules to horary? First house ruler (me) is Mars, in Taurus in the 6th House. His ruler (7th) is Venus in Libra in the 11th. My planet is much weaker than his. It's applying to a square with Neptune. Mercury is right on the MC and opposes Neptune....so that Mercury/Neptune opposition is angular in the chart and quite prominent. I dunno, maybe I'm paranoid, but those seem to be aspects of deception.

Any thoughts on this chart, anyone??

3
Well, some toughts...

1 -You did what you tought it was a good deed... it doesn?t really matter if the guy was a real deal or not, don?t you think ?
2 -I know, we feel "robbed", but what?s the matter ? at least you feel good about yourself, did the right thing, and nobody is hurt as the money was small.

If this was an horary, we would have the problem that it isn?t fit to be read...

The testimonies you have already given, more that moon has just entered pisces, whose dispositor Jupiter is in the 12th house, make me believe that you have been scamed.

3 - last comment is that we will never know, so is just for mutual fun ;-)

Yuzuru

4
Hi Kurgal
On second thoughts, I don't know if I can just attribute 1st House to "me" and the 7th House to "other"..being an event chart...
I've been led to believe that if a person doesn't belong to another house as relative or friend, then yes the 7th is "any other person".

I also think Yuzuru is probably right. Venus being the man's significator and the ruler of the 12th which holds Jupiter as ruler of your money (2nd) just separating from the square with Neptune in the 4th (end of the matter). The ruler of the 4th is Saturn approaching a conjunction with Mercury ruler of his money (8th) at the MC, showing his success in the endeavour.
If this was an horary, we would have the problem that it isn?t fit to be read...
I think this is a good example of an event chart showing what happened and the late ascendant shows that "the matter has been decided" - i.e. that you can't change this outcome.

But as Y said - you answered an appeal for help which seemed genuine at the time and fortunately the loss wasn't great.

5
Thanks for the feedback. I wasnt seriously cut up about it. I guess I still helped someone, even if they did "rob" me. When I was walking away I was feeling "I either helped someone out in a crisis, or helped someone out with supporting their drug habit" (!) :lol:


Still interested in further thoughts on the chart though......thought it was an interesting example, to see if i could get a consensus of opinion on it.
or whether it was possible to get an answer out of the chart at all....

6
Sungem wrote: I also think Yuzuru is probably right. Venus being the man's significator and the ruler of the 12th which holds Jupiter as ruler of your money (2nd) just separating from the square with Neptune in the 4th (end of the matter). The ruler of the 4th is Saturn approaching a conjunction with Mercury ruler of his money (8th) at the MC, showing his success in the endeavour..
Sungem, you make a very good point....that's one of the first things I noticed when I drew the chart. I noticed that my 2nd House ruler (my money) was in HIS sign. Which means he got his hands on my money. His planet is stronger than mine too. Also, my significator is ruled by his!! (Because my Mars is in Taurus, disposited by Venus - him - in Libra)....I am receiving and accepting his influence, I end up doing what he wants.....

So all of that means, he was successful in getting $$$ out of me, but how do i know it was a SCAM and not for real??? (although I now feel it WAS a scam, where is that exactly shown? only by the 12th House Jupiter???)

was it a scam?

7
It does look like a scam, and not just because of the chart. I have to say, I have been approached by people using this very method.

You hate to think that someone would deliberately con you, and I'm sure there are instances when someone is genuinely in trouble, but I think this is an all-too-common scheme.

Nevertheless, you have shown yourself to be kindhearted and that's not a bad thing at all.

9
Hi Kurgal
...but how do i know it was a SCAM and not for real??? (although I now feel it WAS a scam, where is that exactly shown? only by the 12th House Jupiter???)
Thinking about this, I wondered if it might be possible to use Lilly's "rumour" rules. The problem is, I couldn't quite get my head around True or False as the question stood. However given your feelings about the matter as expressed above, and our comments, could we change it to a statement - "I was duped" - and ask if the rumour is true? I haven't used that rule before and this is just a quick lunchtime peek to see what's happening. I will try to look at it again tonight. What do you think?

Note that I believe the answer is in this chart, there's no need for another, but finding out how to read the answer is sometimes the tricky bit! :)

10
Uh-oh! I don?t think it?s looking good. Well, I couldn?t make head nor tail of Lilly on this tonight, so I?m going for JF?s simpler translation just now :) If someone agrees that this is even a reasonable thing to do with this chart, I?ll probably grapple with Lilly on it later.

For the rumour to be true ?
The angles should be in fixed signs
? they are.
Lord 1, Lord 3 the Moon and the Moon?s dispositor should be in fixed signs and angular houses, or at least fixed signs and succedent houses.
? Lord 1 and 3 are both in fixed signs (but cadent houses).
? The Moon has only just left (8') a fixed sign in an angular house.
? The Moons dispositor (Jupiter) is in a cardinal sign and cadent house.
Look at the condition of the 3rd house: an affliction there (such as debilitated Saturn on the cusp) could show falsehood;?.
Well nothing showing in/on the 3rd.

Then I wondered about antiscia. Supposedly contacts by antiscion carry a sense of hiddenness. Conjunct the antiscion = yes. Opposition to antiscion (i.e.conjunct contrantiscion) = no. This is the first time I've tried to apply antiscia as well.

Oh lookee here! Neptune in the 4th is conjunct the antiscion of Mars (you and also you as the younger man), by 1 degree 58? so this might indicate a yes, you were deceived. Saturn (the end of the matter and also an older man) is opposition the antiscion of the Asc by 2 degrees 5? so this might indicate a no, he did not intend to deceive you. :?

Lastly, Fortuna (your treasure, disposited by his significator Venus and sitting in ?the other?s? house) is conjunct the antiscion of the Sun (a man and ruler of the 10th where it is posited) by 2 degrees 9? - this might indicate yes, he had hidden motivation to obtain your money.
With so many testimonies we will rarely get a unanimous verdict. A majority decision will do.
Well, based on the foregoing Kurgal, I think I agree with you that this rumour is true ? sorry :(

11
Hi Kurgal :D ,

do not despare, even if you were 'duped' as you call it - you might get back something good from the Universe in return :) ....

If you think you have enough knowledge in horary astrology - could you maybe have a look at the 'Horary ESP Question' a few lines below?

I do not know if the answer is so obvious "yes" (as I do think) that no one has bothered to reply or if it is so complicated that no one knows what the answer is 8)...

LittleMermaid :???: .