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Study chart: love oriented

 
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EleanorLouise



Joined: 16 Jun 2018
Posts: 157

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:36 am    Post subject: Study chart: love oriented Reply with quote

Event already manifested

------


Will I romantically meet someone in march 2020?
25 february 2020  9:25pm

Libra= venus/me
Venus exactly conjuncts dsc.
Venus is in Mar's sign and in detriment.
Venus is very interested in mars man .
Venus/mars does not aspect

Aries= mars/potential male
Mars is exalted and conjunct south node.
There is no reception/concern of venus.
So mars may not be that interested in venus at least romantically.
South node is malefic or decreases.
This could decrease the mars energy or make it more malefic.
Mars is cadent.
Mars/venus no aspect.

Moon co-rules me and show events of the chart.
Moon/mars squares.
Moon is in mar's sign. Showing interest/moon recieves mars.
Though moon is cadent and in an unfortunate house.
This could show limitation to no acting on emotions for mars.

Mars/moon square can show difficulty, delays, or incompatibility.

The chart shows me meeting someone I may have interest in.
Venus conjunct dsc
Moon squares mars
Though I may not easily or at all act toward this person and this person may not really go out of their way to approach me

There is saturn conjunct IC= limitations and hesitation.
Uranus in 7th can show major disruption.

Exalted: a person of respect or rank.
"Like a man in the pinnacle of his rank"
"Presents a person of halty condition, arrogant, assuming more unto him than his due."
Mars exalted could show a man really selling himself to make/appear great, an arrogant person, or just indicates his strength/ability to act. Planets in exalt within love charts I have found to be someone who i haughty and really sell theirself to be something amazing. A level of narcism and ideology that anything they do is amazing/righteous. Also a person who has little compassion for others usually, lacks humility.
___________________
what actually happened.
She spoke to an ex from years ago. They just were discussing the past to understand events from both sides.
Anyway, this ex was very ready and eager to jump back into her life, meet her, and was flirting. She has Absolutely no desire for him and isn't attracted to him. He is toxic and unhealthy to associate with.

She did state she saw many good changes in him and he was very open and calm to talk about the past. She said she was very impressed with his communication style.

She was the one that acted toward him to open communication explains venus in Mars and conjunct descendant.
Though she ended up rejecting him and keeping him as a stranger.

She said she still saw a lot of red flags in him that made her not want to have him as an acquaintance.

He acted how I described him selling himself to make himself appear good, making himself look to be a ladies man (said he had multiple conquests), just really selling himself. She sees it as a false form of confidence and a need for others to praise them when anyone really up sell theirself. Mars is still a malefic and plus conjunct south node just adds how unpleasant he probably really is.

Square shows incompatibility...with moon/Mars. Moon con-rules future events of situation and querant. Moon most likely co-rules asker and shows that she sees the good that his self-work has been (Mars sign), but she doesn't see compatibility nor wants to act on him (cadent). Mars/moon interaction she said that she still saw how messed up his past actions was and how ugly he is....this this shows stirring of emotions that lead to her to wanting him to stay a stranger to her.

Any comments about the chart are welcomed.

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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1014

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the south node conjunct Mars is what emphasized a previous lover re-entering the picture, since the SN often represents the past. Also, it looks like Mercury retro in the 5th prohibits an aspect between Moon and Mars if you fast forward the chart by a few hours. The aspect is a tight race though.

Thanks for sharing.
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EleanorLouise



Joined: 16 Jun 2018
Posts: 157

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
I wonder if the south node conjunct Mars is what emphasized a previous lover re-entering the picture, since the SN often represents the past. Also, it looks like Mercury retro in the 5th prohibits an aspect between Moon and Mars if you fast forward the chart by a few hours. The aspect is a tight race though.

Thanks for sharing.


Thank you. I did not know that about south node. But think it is true from another chart when SN conjunct 7th (older chart nothing to do with march 2020.) A past lover was what showed up.

I remember seeing that. I assume no prohibition because I thought moon would complete aspect with mars before mercury could. Assume mercury would be slower than moon to even complete the minutes between merc/mars. If mental calculation right, moon moves a degree around every two hours if assumption of 2.5 days in a sign is equal to 60 hours. It would take moon theoretically 6 hours to reach mars.

So I assume mercury did prohibit then? mercury could symbolize romantic (5th) discussions (mercury) are retracted/evaded (retro) if we even bother symbolizing mercury as anything than indicating a playout of events.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, I fast forwarded the chart and Mercury did aspect first but the Moon was still very close to aspect. Obviously you touched well on other issues with the chart either way anyway. Mars does receive Moon which helps with a square aspect but both are also cadent and ultimately Venus is debilitated. I have noticed a trend where essential dignity shows strong interest in the matter where debility can show things like either lack of interest or change of heart.

One of the strongest influences on the chart also seems to be Saturn, which is angular and squares the Asc and the ascendant lord. It could be describing the toxic past too since the 4th lords our roots and it also is dispositing Mars. Pluto in the 4th in natal is also a toxic past so I could see the same being true in horary.
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ameliaastrology



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 60

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:47 am    Post subject: Role of Angles? Reply with quote

Hi,

I note OP said "There is saturn conjunct IC= limitations and hesitation."
In Lilly's work, there is a lot about what happens when Lords of the angles aspect each other (when they're significators), but I can't seem to find much explanation on the angles themselves. John Frawley said in Horary Textbook that significator of the quesited aspecting the ASC (instead of Lord 1) shows the matter is on the querent's mind. Not much more.

What are you views on this? If, say, in a business deal chart, sun in 7th trine ASC. Other factors being constant, what could this mean? Thank you.

Amelia
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1014

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I note OP said "There is saturn conjunct IC= limitations and hesitation."
In Lilly's work, there is a lot about what happens when Lords of the angles aspect each other (when they're significators), but I can't seem to find much explanation on the angles themselves. John Frawley said in Horary Textbook that significator of the quesited aspecting the ASC (instead of Lord 1) shows the matter is on the querent's mind. Not much more.


Here L1 does aspect the ascendant via opposition. An opposition is a stressful aspect but still implies that the querent "sees" the situation and has some control over the outcome. In traditional astrology in general, when a house lord beholds its own house it has more control over itself or its subject matter.

Although Saturn lords an angle and lords the quesited, Mars as quesited does not aspect the ascendant here and is not angular either. It is cadent, which implies weakness around the matter (that they lack control over the situation). All of this together implies the querent holds more control over the outcome, which proved to be true in the end.

I do think Saturn holds a heavy influence in the matter but I personally think it relates more so to what the querent described as past negative experiences. Saturn is also squaring the querent and Venus square Saturn is a strong indicator of past hurt and/ or rejection or conditional love issues. The aspect is applying so the querent likely relives trauma when staying connected to the quesited.
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ameliaastrology



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 60

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
Quote:

I note OP said "There is saturn conjunct IC= limitations and hesitation."
In Lilly's work, there is a lot about what happens when Lords of the angles aspect each other (when they're significators), but I can't seem to find much explanation on the angles themselves. John Frawley said in Horary Textbook that significator of the quesited aspecting the ASC (instead of Lord 1) shows the matter is on the querent's mind. Not much more.


Here L1 does aspect the ascendant via opposition. An opposition is a stressful aspect but still implies that the querent "sees" the situation and has some control over the outcome. In traditional astrology in general, when a house lord beholds its own house it has more control over itself or its subject matter.

Although Saturn lords an angle and lords the quesited, Mars as quesited does not aspect the ascendant here and is not angular either. It is cadent, which implies weakness around the matter (that they lack control over the situation). All of this together implies the querent holds more control over the outcome, which proved to be true in the end.

I do think Saturn holds a heavy influence in the matter but I personally think it relates more so to what the querent described as past negative experiences. Saturn is also squaring the querent and Venus square Saturn is a strong indicator of past hurt and/ or rejection or conditional love issues. The aspect is applying so the querent likely relives trauma when staying connected to the quesited.


Thank you so much, Tanit. I read A LOT of posts you wrote before I registered and it's so nice to finally learn from you. (On a side note, yes I saw the condition of Mars. Sorry for bringing up Frawley's theory in a confusing manner. I meant it as an example.)
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ameliaastrology



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 60

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
Quote:

I note OP said "There is saturn conjunct IC= limitations and hesitation."
In Lilly's work, there is a lot about what happens when Lords of the angles aspect each other (when they're significators), but I can't seem to find much explanation on the angles themselves. John Frawley said in Horary Textbook that significator of the quesited aspecting the ASC (instead of Lord 1) shows the matter is on the querent's mind. Not much more.


Here L1 does aspect the ascendant via opposition. An opposition is a stressful aspect but still implies that the querent "sees" the situation and has some control over the outcome. In traditional astrology in general, when a house lord beholds its own house it has more control over itself or its subject matter.

Although Saturn lords an angle and lords the quesited, Mars as quesited does not aspect the ascendant here and is not angular either. It is cadent, which implies weakness around the matter (that they lack control over the situation). All of this together implies the querent holds more control over the outcome, which proved to be true in the end.

I do think Saturn holds a heavy influence in the matter but I personally think it relates more so to what the querent described as past negative experiences. Saturn is also squaring the querent and Venus square Saturn is a strong indicator of past hurt and/ or rejection or conditional love issues. The aspect is applying so the querent likely relives trauma when staying connected to the quesited.


Dear Tanit,

May I raise a further question?

In horary, when Saturn is a significator or, when it's not, comes into the picture by being the transferrer or collector of lights - let's say he has good essential dignities and is applying conjunction/trine to the significators - does Saturn's having a role still mean that the matter will get hindered, wounded or delayed in some ways, because it's a malefic?

John Frawley said that an essentially dignified Mars or Saturn shouldn't be treated as malefic. I always have my doubts, mainly because of Lilly's attitude. I would really love to know where Sky-script people stand on this.

I've been learning Horary for few months and I have so many questions like this. But I'll try to do my homework before I raise any. I hope I'm not very troublesome. I hope I'll grow up fast, be like Tanit some day and be able to contribute better views. Very Happy
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1014

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello - there have been tons of threads over the years based on this line of question (a theme on "is a malefic always bad?") and one good one is here:


http://tmp.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4832&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

You will hear different opinions, basically. One question you see a lot is does a malefic that is essentially good behave better than one that is essentially bad?

My opinion is that an essentially poor malefic is much worse and even more so if it has accidental dignity to have power to express that negative energy. When Saturn has sect and is essentially good it can behave well and if accidentally strong it can have power to express it. I do think sect is important because I have seen it have significance, such as Saturn at night showing a more heartless person or signifying someone having a lack of knowledge in a subject (since Saturn can represent hidden knowledge about the universe and at night this knowledge is less clear).

My personal opinion is that in horary when a significator is a malefic and it is essentially and accidentally good it can behave very well and bring beneficial things depending on the subject, but usually it still comes with mixed blessings or holds specific meaning around the question, such as what I mentioned about Saturn possibly showing a more stressful job with responsibilities. It can also suggest delay which isn't necessary horrible. I have an angular and dignified Mars as my strongest natal influence and I see a lot of good with it but it has negatives too. I don't think horary is much different. Astrology is astrology. Benefics tend to show things that come easily and are more pleasant whereas malefics may come with more difficulty and are less agreeable and more tough. Still, difficult things can still be worth having (sometimes more so than easy things).

The question of a malefic just showing up in a chart holding the most power and not being a significator - in this case, a malefic just putting itself in the situation tends to not be a helpful influence but I would say it depends on the chart. On its own I wouldn't take this as a negative if other things are positive but it should at least describe something around the matter and could very well inhibit the situation.

Kind of on a similar theme, Lilly also gave specific examples where planets can take on the energy of a malefic via aspect and bring it into a matter effectively:

Quote:
Lilly writes of translation (CA., p.111)

Translation of light and nature is, when a light Planet separates from a more weighty one, and presently joins to another more heavy; and its in this manner, Let Saturn be in 20. degree. of Aries: Mars in 15 of Aries, and Mercury in 16 of Aries; here Mercury being a swift Planet separates from Mars, and translates the virtue of Mars unto Saturn. Its done also as well by any Aspect as by Conjunction. And the meaning hereof in judgment, is no more then thus; That if the matter or thing were promised by Saturn, then such a man as is signified by Mercury shall procure all the assistance a Mars man can do unto Saturn, whereby the business may be the better effected; in Marriages, Lawsuits, and indeed in all vulgar questions Translation, is of great use, and ought well to be considered.




You will find a lot of quotes in Lilly's Christian Astrology that are sometimes contradictory where he states malefics are evil but then that they can show good, so I think overall Lilly would just say it depends.

Lilly followed Bonatti and some of Bonatti's ideas are below (his 146 Considerations):


Quote:

11. The 11th Consideration, Is to take notice of the Malevolent Planets, and what they signify; for Saturn and Mars are naturally bad, Saturn for excess of cold, and Mars for excess of heat; not that either of them is really hot or cold, but virtually so; and these are their effects. And so they signifie evil and damage and hindrance, unless they receive the Significator or the Moon by House, Exaltation, or two of their smaller dignities; or shall themselves be Significators; for then they will bridle their malice, and not weaken or hinder him whom they receive, with what aspect soever they behold him; but if they do not receive, their malice is increased; and so much the more if they be in opposition or Square; for in Sextile or Trine the mischief is less. Yet 'Zael' seems to say that Infortunes lay aside or restrain their malice, where they are in Trine or Sextile; but his meaning was only that they were not then so violent, and intended not that their malice was wholly abated. 

The 48th is, To consider, when an Infortune is Significator and his ill effects are mitigated, whether Jupiter behold him, or is joined corporaly to him? For that will wholly destroy his malignity and turn his nature into good, how bad soever he be; so that if Saturn in that place of himself would not bestow some good or perform what he seems to promise, Jupiter will make him do it, provided he be not afflicted himself, as in his fall, Combust or Retrograde (yet even then he helps, but not so powerfully). On the other side Venus takes off the fury of Mars, by reason of that endearing intimacy which is between them, unless the thing be very difficult, as wars and bloodshed, &c. But she cannot so well divert the mischief of Saturn without the help of Jupiter (and then she can do it as well as at other times that of Mars). The reason is, there is no such sympathy between Saturn and she, in any respect; for he is slow. she swift; he heavy, she light; de delights in melancholy, she in mirth. 

49. The 49th is to consider, Whether one of the Infortunes being Significator, be joined to another, for if he signified a good himself, this will destroy or frustrate it; but if any evil, it will augment and double it, or change it into some worse mischief of another of another kind; as when the pain near the navel turns into a dry Dropsy; but if joined to a Fortune with a Reception on either side, the evil will be converted into good; but without a Reception it will only be allayed and abated, according to the strength of such Fortune.



Notice ideas about how Jupiter mitigates Mars and Saturn while Venus only mitigates Mars, meaning the benefics can render them less difficult or maybe even positive. As they mention in the thread I linked above, when malefics combine they can also be really bad. Bonatti even specifically said Mars and Saturn conjunct in the 4th is very unfortunate.

Hopefully that kind of answers your question.
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ameliaastrology



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit - So generous of you. I'm in debt. Next time I'll dig up more old threads before I raise any questions.

I've never paid much attention to sect. I'll heed your advice.

Your quotes are very helpful. They also revived my memory of some cases where Lilly didn't see Saturn as bad or immoral. For example, in "A lady, if marry the gentleman desired", the quesited was Saturn. Lilly not only didn't mention any worries on behalf of his client, he even advised her on how to secure the match. Yes - he really would've said it depends.

Finally,

Quote:
Still, difficult things can still be worth having (sometimes more so than easy things).


I love this. I have Gemini Venus spot on my MC natally. It's opposite a dignified Saturn in Capricorn, out of sign. Nothing Venusian or 10th-house ever came easily my way, but the struggles were precious lessons. I wouldn't change a thing.

Thank you again!
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