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Significators or Rulers and Almutens? - Profession example

 
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Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 126

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Significators or Rulers and Almutens? - Profession example Reply with quote

Hello, all!

I’ve been studying Zoller’s course and he advocates the use of significators to delineate professions and finances in the chart. He says the technique is from Bonatti based on Ptolemy.

I would like to know what you think about this and whether you use significators in your delineations.

I ask this because the method comes to me as extremely toilsome, and includes at least five steps and a lot of checkings (dignities, aspects, debilities etc).

I am well aware he is against what he calls the "modern method" of using only the ruler of the house pertinent to the matter (in this case Lord of 10), but I’ve been using this method with a good rate of success and accuracy.

Is this approach to delineation also used by other traditional classic astrologers or is it something more connected to Bonatti?

So, to make things short: what method do you personally use and what do you think about the significators approach?

BEST
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astrojin



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 478

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi...

When I studied Zoller's method of Bonatti I naturally tested his methodology with my charts (this was about 15 years ago). As an example he listed 18 particular methods for finding the financial significator (which expanded to 24). Somehow this methodology is not only tedious, it didn't work that well for me! In addition, a few of the items are very questionable to me e.g. the Part of substance - really this one did not work.

Even the so called Tiberiades (Latin for Omar of Tiberias) method of compound almuten did not work well for me! Later, I just removed all methods involving compund almutens altogether from my "toolbox" with the exception of the Almuten Figuris (ibn Ezra).

May be it's just me not applying the techniques as they should be but I prefer to use other methodologies that somehow work better. Though I must say that the study of medieval astrology (Zoller) and Hellenistic astrology brought me and advanced me very well in understanding astrology and to come up with my own methods...

The same is to be said with the Professional significator. Somehow, strictly following Zoller's method just doesn't cut it for me...but again I still use the same concept (plus some other things I learnt from Hellenistic and Arabic materials) in formulating my own methodologies...

For me, I always look at the philosophy behind the technique / methodology / framework and the philosophy must somehow be consistent & satisfy my own "questions" first and then (and only then) I start to practice them on many charts before deciding whether it should be included in my so called astrological "toolbox".

As an example: The topic of profession.

Zoller named the title for analysis of profession as magisterium/profession. Paulus Alexandrinus named it praxis (roughly translates into "what you do"). Hence, the methodology is all about finding what you are most busy doing using a particular skillset in your life (if you have it in the first place, evidenced by the existence of the profession significator) and if the significator is highly resourceful (essentially dignified), you are highly skilled in it. If the significator is powerful (accidentally dignified), then you are an authority in it. Whether you will gain respect and perks that come with doing it (like money, power etc.), we have to look into other things - just like what Zoller mentioned e.g. Ptolemy's Rank of Fame or Firmicus' levels of slavery.

So, when I read in the text that says "Venus, Mars and Mercury are the first to be comprehended when prognosticating praxis" - I ask myself why? The answer is made clear in Paulus' text which says that these are the fast moving planets and hence, they represent "what the native will be busy with if any one of these three is the significator of profession". This is then made even more telling that the majority of the ancient people are either artisans, warriors and merchants which correlated well with the three fast moving planets above. Does this mean that the other two planets are not planets of profession? No. These two planets represent the minority. Jupiter being the elite (the aristocrat) and Saturn the "administrator" (which is why Ptolemy and others say that Saturn is the manager). The luminaries should not be included here (I am deviating from Zoller here!). Aspects of the significator to the luminaries will tell us whether the profession is bodily related (aspects to moon) or more of "thinking/reasoning/planning" (aspects to sun).

Usually, when I delineate a chart, I will look at the three levels namely, the planet/luminaries level, the house level and the lot level. Each has something significantly different contribution to the same topic. The above method is the planet level where lineage, caste, political/economical status has a lot of say in a chart. This reigns true in ancient times. So, if you were to be born in those period, Mercury close to ascendant and is the "morning star" or making a phasis while being the next planet Moon aspects to shall almost automatically be considered as the planet of profession regardless of the ruler of the tenth (unless it is also Mercury). HOWEVER, in modern times, we associate praxis to "choice" and this is the house level. The planets occupying and/or ruling the tenth house is almost always the significator (well, at least the majority of them!). This is the reason that you find this methodology seems to work well in modern times...
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Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 126

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, astrojin, thank you for your (awesome) feedback.

Quote:


When I studied Zoller's method of Bonatti I naturally tested his methodology with my charts (this was about 15 years ago). As an example he listed 18 particular methods for finding the financial significator (which expanded to 24). Somehow this methodology is not only tedious, it didn't work that well for me! In addition, a few of the items are very questionable to me e.g. the Part of substance - really this one did not work.



Exactly the same findings and thinkings with me.

Quote:


May be it's just me not applying the techniques as they should be but I prefer to use other methodologies that somehow work better.



I don’t know, I had the same results (or lack of them) that you mention, even when I strictly followed the rules outlined.

Quote:


Usually, when I delineate a chart, I will look at the three levels namely, the planet/luminaries level, the house level and the lot level. Each has something significantly different contribution to the same topic.



Nice to know. In my case I see that even the lots sometimes do not add nothing too special about the topic being delineated - I mean, nothing I can not delineate or predict from the planets. I remember using lots maybe in two or three charts with difficult aspects in which I wanted to go deeper to understand the situation.

Quote:


HOWEVER, in modern times, we associate praxis to "choice" and this is the house level. The planets occupying and/or ruling the tenth house is almost always the significator (well, at least the majority of them!). This is the reason that you find this methodology seems to work well in modern times...



I liked your reasoning, it makes a lot of sense.

Thank you very much!
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