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Promotion Horary Using Lilly

 
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1015

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Promotion Horary Using Lilly Reply with quote



Dec 18, 2019: 11:53 AM

Hello,

I made a personal horary regarding a promotion at work I was being encouraged to apply for by my supervisor but am undecided about. I asked if I would receive the promotion if applied and if I would be good at it/like the position, which is a leadership position. Second opinions welcome. I will give a final reply regarding outcome.

Using Lilly's rules:

Lilly, CA, CHAPTER LXXXII Of Government, Office, Dignity, Preferment, or any place of Command or Trust, whether attainable or not?

-The 1st house and his Lord are given to the Querent, the 10th house and his Lord shall signifie the Place, Office, Preferment, Command, Honour, &c. enquired after

the 1st lord and 10th are both Jupiter in fall in the 10th, with minor face dignity. Jupiter is oriental and in a day chart and elevated but has poor essential dignity and is also conjunct the South Node, which is negative for a benefic and decreases its benefic influences.

-Lord of the ascendant/ Moon be both joyned to the Sun, or to the Lord of the 10th, or either of them, and the Lord of the 10th behold the 10th, or be personally therein, the Querent shall then have the thing sought after, but not Gratis; nay, he must bestir himselfe, and use all the friends he can about it.

Moon is square a dignified Sun in the 10th, which is antiscia the lord of the 1st/10th. The Moon is in the 7th house, which can signify competition for a job or open enemies.

-If none of the Significators be joyned to the Lord of the 10th see if the Lord of the lst or Moon be in the 10th, he shall then attain what he desires, if that Planet be not impedited.

Jupiter is in the 10th but it is impedited by the SN and is essentially poor.

-The Lord of the 10th in the lst, so he be a lighter Planet then the Lord of the 1st, though no aspect be betwixt them, yet shall he attain the Place or Office desired; but with more ease and lesse labour when the lord of the 10th is in the ascendant, and is either going to Conjunction, Sextile or Trine aspect with the Lord of the lst.

the lord of the 1st in the 10th or 10th lord in the 1st is usually favorable but in this case it is rather mixed given the condition of Jupiter and the placement of the SN.

-If the Lord of the 10th be joyned to Jupiter or Venus by any aspect, and the Lord of the 10th be in the ascendant, it argues obtaining of the Office with ease and facility.

not applicable

-If the Lord of the 10th be joyned to Mars or Saturn, and they or either of them in the ascendant, in their owne house or exaltation, and themselves Orientall and Direct, and not one opposite to another, this doth argue obtaining the Preferment, though with much importunity.

the 10th lord is not but the Moon separates last from dignified Saturn, dispositor of Jupiter.

-If the Lord of the 10th receive the Lord of the 1st or the Moon by any reception, or in any house, the matter will be effected with much content and profit.

the lord of the 10th does not receive the Moon.

-If any Planet transferre the vertue of the Lord of the 1st to the Lord of the 10th, then the thing will be perfected, or Office obtained by meanes of another that labours in the matter, and not by himselfe: In this case, it's best that he who would acquire the Dignity, observe if he know such a man as the Planet describes, that in probability is active, or of neer acquaintance to the person of whom he would have the Office, and let him imploy such a one in the businesse, for by his meanes it's very like he may attaine the place desires.

the Moon translates the light of Saturn to Sun in the 10th but from the 7th house, which may point more so to conflict and competition.

-If the Lord of the 10th doe not desire the Conjunction of the Lord of the 1st, but the Lord of the ascendant his, and doth really come to Conjunction of the Lord of the 10th, without the abscission of any other Planet before Conjunction, the Office will be obtained, but the Querent must labour hard for it. No Conjunction being betwixt the Lord of the lst and 10th, or either of them joyned to a Fortune, but to a malevolent, and this malevolent joyned to another malevolent, and this malevolent joyned to a Fortune, and this Fortune joyned to the Lord of the lOth; if the Conjunction of the lst Infortune be with the Lord of the lst, or the last Planet is joyned to the Lord of the lst, or if their first Conjunction be with the Lord of the lOth, yet it imports acquisition of the Dignity, but with infinite perplexities, and solicitation of many and severall persons.

not really applicable, other than the lord of the 1st/10th with unfortunate influences

-You may easily distinguish the persons of those to be imployed, by the Planets before mentioned, and the houses they are Lords of; those Planets that are in Sextile or Trine to the Lord of the 10th are great with him: Let application or meanes be made to such, for those men may be great Friends to the Querent. Behold if any of the preceding Planets be in the lst, or in the 10th; if he be a Fortune, it notes obtaining the Dignity, whether he be in Reception or not: If the Planet so posited do receive the Moon or Lord of the lst, the matter will be perfected, but without Reception, not.

dignified Sun is often considered a fortune but it aspects the Moon without reception and applies to combust the 1st/10th lord.

-If the 10th house be in the house or exaltation of that evill Planet, and he placed in that house, he performes the business, whether he receive the Lord of the ascendant or the Moon.

Jupiter is in the house of Saturn but Saturn is in the 11th house of gain and allies in work. Saturn in the house of allies more so makes me think of unreliable allies.

-In every Question you must observe, that what Planet soever is Significator of any thing, If he be in an angle, he hastens to effect the matter; in a succedant, the matter goes on slowly; in a cadent house, the matter goes backward, yet at last is performed. See if an ill Planet behold the Lord of the ascendant or the Moon, with Square or Opposition, without Reception, for unlesse he then commit his disposition to another, he hinders and disturbs the Querent by meanes of that person who is to solicite the cause or businesse, and it's probable they will fallout about it: If a Trine or Sextile be betwixt them, he will not be angry with him, although he performe not what he expects. If the Lord of the ascendant and 10th commit their disposition to any Planet by any aspect, with or with no Reception, whether the Receiver be a Fortune or Infortune (so that he be not Retrograde, Combust or Cadent, or goe out of that Signe wherein he is before the Conjunction of the Lord of the lst or lOth, the Querent shall achieve the preferment expected.

I think Moon angular square Sun is most in line with this, since Sun does not seem to aid anything and even squares the Ascendant and is applying towards combustion (out of sign but probably still relevant).

-It's generally concluded by all Astrologers, that if the Lord of the ascendant and the Lord of the 10th be joyned together, and the Moon apply to either of them, the matter will be effected, but best of all when Moon separates from the Lord of the 10th, and applyes to the Lord of the ascendant.
not applicable

-Behold if the Lord of the lst be joyned to the Lord of the 4th, or the Lord of the 4th to the Lord of the ascendant, it argues their perfecting of the thing: but if the Lord of the ascendant be joyned to the Lord of the 4th, and the Lord of the 4th be joyned to the Lord of the 10th, the matter shall be effected, but with so much strugling and delaying that it was absolutely despaired ever to be effected, yet at last it was perfected.

not applicable

My final take was that I had a chance at the position with effort but that I would either not enjoy the position or would not be good at it and there is likely competition I am unaware of and I will not have enough support from other leadership. It seems like the position is not well suited for a Jupiterian person such as myself and would be better for someone else. I likely will not even apply for the position at this point but I am still undecided. FYI, the position is high paying but I am not the sort of person highly motivated by pay. I more so care about personal growth/making an impact on the world/others (Jupiter as a sig is fitting and lords my natal 10th).
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Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 126

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Tanit3333.

I liked to see Lilly’s excerpts mentioned by you, although I feel that following Lilly ipsis litteris is sometimes quite laborious, with contradicting rules and usually too many details that do not add to find an answer when compared to a simple but solid approach.

That being sad, this is how I analyzed it.

You are Jupiter and the Moon and the promotion is Jupiter. Since Jupiter rules both of you, you end uo being the Moon.

As you of course noticed in your text, there is no aspect between the signifiers, nor a reception. Besides that, Jupiter is badly afflicted (even though it is in a cardinal house).

This per se is enough proof for me that you wouldn’t receive the promotion, if applied, and that probably the position is far from being something good or cool for you (always for your perspective, maybe others will think this is the dream job). It is possible that the position brings a lot of burden, new responsibilites, headache without giving you anything good in terms of emotions/feelings and or money (L2 Venus and L11 - 2nd from 10th - Saturn).

The fact that Moon will next apply to Venus (L2) maybe suggests that the main motivator for you when thinking about applying for the position was money, but the chart doesn’t promise anything exceptional in that regards. Maybe we have a situation of "the position is not worth what it costs" (you may earn more, but things would be so hard and detrimental that the payoff is bad).

My 5 cents for this question: the translation of light from Saturn to the Sun is irrelevant (separating aspects) as is much of the Sun and Saturn as to your question. Of course they can give more details about the situation (for example, Jupiter applying Sun can indicate the position will make the worker closer to important people, maybe the owner of the company etc), but they are not crucial to answering your concerns.

I hope that helped.

BEST
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1015

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The fact that Moon will next apply to Venus (L2) maybe suggests that the main motivator for you when thinking about applying for the position was money, but the chart doesn’t promise anything exceptional in that regards. Maybe we have a situation of "the position is not worth what it costs" (you may earn more, but things would be so hard and detrimental that the payoff is bad).p


The Moon's next aspect is to Sun at the MC, not Venus. It separates from Saturn, L11 which would rule the salary though (2nd from 10th is generally regarded as income from work and what I look at as the salary of a job). I think others who may apply (purely gossip) would be motivated by the money though. The salary is very good. L11 in Capricorn I think shows my not being motivated by salary though since it is not in a sign I receive by either Moon or Jupiter.

I agree that the job would be burdensome and is one of the main reasons I am on the fence about it. The main draw is that I think I am the most qualified of my coworkers and that it would be a learning experience for me since I do not feel challenged in my current role but I have a second job that helps with that already and this job might take up too much of my focus. I think that is in part the sign barrier issues being shown between Sag and Capricorn and mutable angles - two jobs. If Sun lords something to do with my work I would think it relates more to my other job in academia.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject: Moon is peregrine Reply with quote

Hi - I don't think anybody has mentioned that the Moon is peregrine. It has minor mutual reception by face with Mercury. Moon has accidental dignity by virtue of being angular in the seventh house. The Moon is also separating from the partile sextile of Mars and Saturn, the two malefics, both powerful by essential dignity. Would this move allow you to move on from a difficult situation? Mars is ruler/almuten of the eighth; Saturn is ruler/almuten of the twelfth, both difficult houses.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Hi - I don't think anybody has mentioned that the Moon is peregrine. It has minor mutual reception by face with Mercury. Moon has accidental dignity by virtue of being angular in the seventh house. The Moon is also separating from the partile sextile of Mars and Saturn, the two malefics, both powerful by essential dignity. Would this move allow you to move on from a difficult situation? Mars is ruler/almuten of the eighth; Saturn is ruler/almuten of the twelfth, both difficult houses.


Mars possibly represents the subject matter of the work. It is true that it is generally better that the Moon separate from a malefic and apply to a benefic rather than vice versa for a new opportunity. That is something I usually mention in charts and another thing I did consider is the 7th is a house of change and in "stay or go" situations it can represent the new endeavor. So it is possible the Moon is emphasizing what the change would bring, which would suggest something better than the current situation. That is a good point. If we did take Mercury to represent the change then it is still in detriment though. Normally with beneficial changes I would not expect to see a hard aspect between luminaries and the Moon is waning rather than increasing in light, suggesting a decrease in gain.

I look at competition types of charts a lot and it was something I thought of when asking the question though and so the 7th in my mind was more so relating to whether another would secure the job. The fact that a luminary resides in that house would more so favor the competition. Still, Sun strong on the MC in a career matter is no small thing and has me scratching my head a bit. Neptune on the ascendant has me going back and forth on this opportunity.

The current job is in no way perfect and one issue I have is the work schedule aligning with my other job. The new job would hypothetically be easier for that if I did not end up working a bunch of overtime. I could possibly step down from the role and go back to my old job if it did not work out so I may have nothing to lose in the end.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Further thoughts Reply with quote

Hi - thanks for the reply. There is something about the Moon, Mercury relationship that is worth unpicking. Mercury is partile conjunction with Fortune. Effectively, placing the Sun on the ascendant takes the Moon (co-significator) to Mercury exactly. Mercury is in detriment and compromised, but is fortified by its conjunction with the Part of Fortune. Although the question is "Will I get the job if I apply for it?", I wonder if the real issue is does this potential role really fit with my desire. You have alluded to this in earlier responses.

My thought is that you may get the job, but it is a poisoned chalice, and deflects you from your real wish, represented by Mercury in the ninth, ruling the seventh and third. Academic work is essentially Jupiterian and Mercurial and falls under the third/ninth of learning and teaching. The new job could be more money, but a lot of effort, and not much satisfying.

I wonder about the antiscia positions of Sun and Jupiter as well. They map on to each other which suggests to me that Jupiter, although in fall, is in a stronger position than is suggested by its accidental dignity in the tenth. The Sun, which signifies leadership is elevated, is in the bounds of Mars and face of Saturn. Jupiter, by contrast is in the bounds of Mercury and face of Jupiter.

Good luck with your decision in any case.
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Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 126

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:


The Moon's next aspect is to Sun at the MC, not Venus.



Indeed, my bad, even though it wouldn’t change my answer.

BEST!
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1015

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Final outcome:
Astralwander's response fits well with my reading and the outcome.

I did not apply to the position at all because I was simply not interested enough and didn't feel I could commit to that level of responsibility. My significator is very fitting. Management seemed most interested in me taking the position and there was a lot of gossip that I was most qualified. There were three known applicants, two more qualified than the third but none very good candidates. The person who got the job was not very qualified but is friendly and people like him. I am pretty sure I would have got the job offer if I had applied.

The horary seems very radical overall and I think the warnings were helpful in my decision. I feel satisfied with not attempting the position.

Thanks all and hopefully this chart might be helpful for others with charts and how debilitated planets don't always mean that they are not qualified or will not receive an opportunity but just that you might not want or be right for something.
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