skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Fixed Stars in a Natal Chart
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tsukii



Joined: 11 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: The Moon

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:37 am    Post subject: Fixed Stars in a Natal Chart Reply with quote

**Note: This is not a strictly sidereal topic**

Hello everyone, I’d like to start a topic about the use of fixed stars and their influences in natal charts, especially on the individual.

To start off, there is a disappointing lack of knowledge (free and otherwise) about the fixed stars and they’re basically unused in most schools of astrology.

I practice Sidereal and Vedic astrology, so the fixed stars do come into play with the lunar mansions (Nakshatras), but it doesn’t seem the single stars like Fomulhaut, Regulus, Spica, Antares, etc, see much use except for astrologers like Joni Patry.

For those who have used the fixed stars, how do you use them? I purchased the personal fixed star report from Astrodiesnt a few years ago and the author Bernadette Brady, I believe, used a technique of the stars making parans with planets. On my behalf, the report was shockingly accurate and I don’t remember finding really any faults with it.

I’ve read most use conjunctions and oppositions with fixed stars, but not so often as trines, sextiles, etc. I’ve always been curious as to why that is. For example, I have Aquarius ruling my 9th house which Saturn occupies, so that in itself makes Saturn a lucky planet for me and removes some of his malefic features. Naturally, the star Fomalhaut occupies this house and trines my ascendant house, Venus and mercury. When I’m reading about Fomhalhaut, I can make clear connections where the star influences these places, but there are those who say trines are ineffectual.

But enough of my rambling, I’d like to hear what everyone else has to say.

P.S., does anyone have any fixed star book recommendations?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Edward White



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
Posts: 37
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the problems you mention can be seen in Simmonite's Arcana of Celestial Philosophy. [pp 282-288] https://archive.org/details/completearcanaa00storgoog/page/n301

The problem with using fixed stars, is that their rising/setting times can be rather erratic. Simmonite gives the example of Rigel . Although Rigel's longitude was [then] 15Gemini, the star does not rise when 15 Gemini is on the ascendant. It instead rises when 27Cancer is on the ascendant. (This is because of the star's distance from the ecliptic, Books on spherical trigonometry will give a more detailed explanation)

Simmonite is skeptical of the aspects to the fixed stars for a similar reason. Because these stars are so distant from the ecliptic, he asserts only conjunctions and zodiacal parallels have any effect on the planets. In any case, Simmonite would have you calculate all other aspects in such a way as to factor in the star's latitude, a process that involves fiddling about with more spherical trig. This perhaps daunted some people away from the use of any aspect apart from the conjunction/opposition .

To make life easier, Simmonite gave a table which showed the Sideral Times when stars rose/conjoined the MC/ Set. But this table can only be used for a particular latitude, and Simmonite did not tell us what latitude it could be used for...

Anyway, in the western tradition, the stars are assigned natures like planets, and are interpreted accordingly. Simmonite gives such a table of assignations, and another set of interpretations on when the stars are rising/setting/culminating in a nativity

Older, and more comprehensive catalogs of natures are found in in Ramesey's Astrologia Restaurata
https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=EyZlAAAAcAAJ&dq=astrologia%20restaurata&pg=PA94#v=onepage&q&f=false
as well as Sibley's A New and Complete Illustration of the Celestial Science of astrology
https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=L6xCAAAAYAAJ&dq=editions%3AFpLYegyOQPcC&pg=PA188#v=onepage&q&f=false

William Lilly is an interesting case. For one, his discussion of fixed stars is scattered throughout the 2nd book of his Christian Astrology; and it is mostly concerned with the use of the stars in Primary Directions. Still, he gives a list of six "Stars of Kingly signification" which denote honour and preferment if significators are conjunct them. The stars are six in number, and they are:

Oculus Taurus (= Aldebaran)
Herecules (Unknown, but Ramsey says this is Pollux)
Cor Leonis (= Regulus)
Spica Virgo
Lucinda Lancis (I cannot identify this star, even after searching on Google. All I could find was a blog by this name -- can anyone help!)
Cor Scorpii (= Antares)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1021

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb Houlding has quite a few articles on the use of fixed stars, including the 20 brightest:
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/20stars.html

I do use them and am a fan of Lilly, who talks briefly about the use of 1st and 2nd magnitude fixed stars in book 3 of Christian Astrology to help describe manners in a person. He also uses them to help describe things like manner of death, such as in cases of violent causes.

I agree with Deb that the brightest seem significant and I especially look at the royal fixed stars and Algol and have seen their significance enough in horary and natal to not dismiss them. They often seem to magnify the energy of whatever they touch, for good or bad. I use 5 degree conjunction orbs but I have seen others only use 1 degree. My first astrologer introduced their usage to me and used 1 degree orb, and I have been using them ever since but found that 5 degrees works best for the royal stars and Algol (Lilly also used 5 degree orbs for Algol).

I personally have quite a few of the primary fixed stars in my chart (Sirius on ASC, ASC ruler Moon with Antares, Scheat on MC, and Sun with Algol), and can seen their significance. I especially think I resonate with Sirius - I am a huge animal lover and my dog is attached at the hip. Those with Sirius prominant are also in danger of dog bites and I had an antibiotic resistant infection from a dog bite several years ago. I have also helped with the diagnosis and treatment of many animal bites in my occupation. Einstein had Sirius rising and ASC lord Moon with Antares and both can show mental pursuits and interest in science (which is my occupation as well).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 464

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Spica and Arcturus around my AC at 24 Libra and Algol at Mercury 25 Taurus.
Well, I'm creative to some extent, especially after 50 do some artworks, not rich. Inflicted Mercury caused some speech impediments.
But Mercury has some hard aspects beside of malefic fixed star and strong Venus helps with creativity anyways, not sure if stars matter here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 464

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While attending some russian astroforums long time ago I've met my "astro-twin", woman who born same year one day earlier. Her AC was in Scorpio, Mercury at Algol, Sun 2-3 degrees from Algol. She was at soviet-Afghanistan war as medical personal, got some wounds and suffered hard years while healing after war.
She claimed to be magician, healed herself and many other people.
And all that she explained and credited to Algol influence, loved this star a lot and disagreed much about its malefic nature.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5102
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tsukii wrote:

Quote:
To start off, there is a disappointing lack of knowledge (free and otherwise) about the fixed stars and they’re basically unused in most schools of astrology.


Not true amongst western traditional astrologers. Also amongst modern western schools of astrology the Uranian school originating in Germany in the early 20th century has also contributed a lot to the study of fixed stars.


Quote:
P.S., does anyone have any fixed star book recommendations?


Yes. Give me a few days and I will give you a suggested bibliography.

Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cruiser1



Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Posts: 37
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edward White wrote:
The problem with using fixed stars, is that their rising/setting times can be rather erratic. Although Rigel's longitude was [then] 15Gemini, the star does not rise when 15 Gemini is on the ascendant. It instead rises when 27Cancer is on the ascendant. (This is because of the star's distance from the ecliptic, Books on spherical trigonometry will give a more detailed explanation)

This issue doesn't just affect fixed stars, but affects all planets not on the ecliptic (i.e. everything but the Sun). The problem is more extreme for bodies farther away from the ecliptic, such as Pluto, asteroids, and fixed stars. It causes planets below the horizon to sometimes be in the 12th house, or planets above the horizon to sometimes be in the 1st. Taking latitude into account (i.e. doing the "spherical trigonometry") so any planet or star always changes houses exactly when it's rising, is the essence of "3D houses", described in this thread: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9836

Edward White wrote:
Simmonite would have you calculate all other aspects in such a way as to factor in the star's latitude, a process that involves fiddling about with more spherical trig. This perhaps daunted some people away from the use of any aspect apart from the conjunction/opposition .

This is what I call "3D Aspects", or taking a planet's latitude above or below the ecliptic into account in addition to its zodiac position longitude, when determining aspects and orbs. Computers can easily do this "spherical trig" for us, so no need to be daunted. Wink Astrolog implements "3D Aspects", which are detailed more at: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/ast3d.htm#aspect
_________________
Astrolog 7.00 freeware downloads: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog.htm Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5102
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello tsukii,

Below is a bibliography on modern books on the use of fixed stars in astrology plus some books focusing on Greco-Roman or Mesopotamian star lore. If we expanded the focus to other cultures star-lore the list would get quite exhaustive.

I haven't listed important ancient, medieval or renaissance traditional sources examining fixed stars here.


Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning by Richard H. Allen (1899)

Star Lore of All Ages by William Tyler Olcott (1911)

The Fixed Stars and Constellations by Vivian Robson (1923)

The Stars: How and Where They Influence by Lorne Edward Johndro (1929)

The Fixed Stars in Astrology by L. H. Weston (1937)

Fixed Stars and Your Horoscope William Joseph Tucker (1963)

Fixed Stars and degrees of influence by EC Matthews (1968)

Fixed Stars & Their Interpretation (with Georg Hoffmann), (1971)

The power of the fixed stars Paperback by Joseph E Rigor (1979)

The Fixed Stars, Health and Behavior Imbalances by Ted George and Barbara Parker (1986)

New Patterns in the Sky: Myths and Legends of the Stars by Julius D. W. Staal (1988)

The Living Stars, Eric Morse (1988)

The Arabs and the Stars: Texts and Traditions on the Fixed Stars and Their Influence in Medieval Europe by Paul Kunitzsch (1989)

Fixed Stars and Judicial Astrology by George C. Noonan (1990)

Star Myths of the Greeks and Romans: A Sourcebook
by Theony Condos (1997)

The Starlore Handbook: The Star-watcher's Essential Guide to the Night Sky, Its Myths and Symbols by Geoffrey Cornelius ( 1997)

Brady's Book of Fixed Stars by Bernadette Brady (1999)

The Use of Fixed Stars in Astrology by Anthony Writer (2005) ebook

Babylonian Star-Lore. an Illustrated Guide to the Star-Lore and Constellations of Ancient Babylonia by Gavin White (2008)

Star and Planet Combinations by Bernadette Brady (2008)

Secrets of the Ancient Skies (Volume 1 &2) by Diana K Rosenberg (2012)

Constellation Myths with Aratus's Phaenomena (Oxford World's Classics) by Eratosthenes, ;Hyginus; ;Aratus translated by (2015)

Star Tales: (Revised and Expanded Edition) Ian Ridpath (2018)

Every Man Is a Star: In search of our Mother Star: the identification of the stellar significators in a birth chart by Giacomo Albano (2019)


I should mention the Dutch astrologer Oscar Hofman (who studied and later collaborated with John Frawley) is just about to publish a new book on fixed stars and astrology which will be published through the Wessex Astrologer in England.

Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly


Last edited by Mark on Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:39 pm; edited 8 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1517
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, the most complete list of books on the fixed stars that I've ever seen, with one or two I didn't know about! One book that isn't on the list that's a fun older book that's now published by Kessinger: Star Lore of All Ages by William Tyler Olcott (1911) (myths, legends and facts about the constellations of the northern hemisphere, so not complete.)

I think the best all around book on the constellations is Julius D.W. Staal's New Patterns in the Sky: Myths and Legends of the Stars from Mark's list above. All the constellations are illustrated from different cultures with the main stars noted. This is a great little book, but it's not about the astrological interpretation of stars. Diana Rosenberg always recommended this book.

Allen's Star Names is the gold standard for the serious student interested in the academic history of stars.

For interpretation there's always the debate about whether ecliptic measurement should be use or Parans (co-risings). Bernadette Brady is the authority on Parans, and I'm not sure about the best sources for ecliptic measurements as many of the older interpretations don't seem accurate. A book that has some research behind it from Mark's list is Ebertin-Hoffman's Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation (1971) published by the Amrican Federation of Astrologers. It's just a little book, 96 pages (ecliptic measurements), but relates different stars to planets in the charts of individuals.

Diana Rosenberg's books contain everything under the sun listed in three degree segments. Not really useful except for serious research.

I'll be looking forward to Oscar Hofman's book.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5102
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese wrote:
Quote:
Mark, the most complete list of books on the fixed stars that I've ever seen, with one or two I didn't know about!


Thanks Therese. I have had more time to expand the list so hopefully there are now several books in there you haven't heard of before!

Therese wrote:
Quote:
One book that isn't on the list that's a fun older book that's now published by Kessinger: Star Lore of All Ages by William Tyler Olcott (1911) (myths, legends and facts about the constellations of the northern hemisphere, so not complete.)


Yes that was an omission. I have now amended the list above to include it.


Therese wrote:
Quote:
Allen's Star Names is the gold standard for the serious student interested in the academic history of stars.


It is undeniably a very interesting and enjoyable read especially in regards star name etymology. However, like Olcott's book the serious researcher has to use it with extreme caution. Many of the academic sources it relies on (especially in regards the constellational ideas of Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Persian, Arabic and Chinese cultures) are no longer credible. This is not a criticism of the author. Simply a reflection of how academic knowledge has moved on in the last 120 years. The modern researcher will need to investigate more up to date monographs for each of these cultures.

This book seems to be the main English language source of the erroneous meme that Regulus, Aldebaran, Antares and Fomalhaut were the four royal stars of ancient Persia equating to four celestial guardian stars or asterisms. From there the error has been repeated by many subsequent astrologers including Bernadette Brady. To be fair Allen was simply sourcing a line of French scholarship advocating this notion that was still respected in his day although several of the star associations selected have been discredited since the mid-20th century.

Mark
_________________
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1517
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm....I don't suppose the list can be reorganized by author? I had to read the list several times to check a couple of books. I don't think this one is listed: Kunitzsch, Paul and Smart, Tim. A Dictionary of Modern Star Names (2006). This is an interesting book for astrologers as it covers the origins of 254 star names and their derivations. It's a Sky & Telescope publication, only 66 pages.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5102
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese wrote:
Quote:
Hmm....I don't suppose the list can be reorganized by author? I had to read the list several times to check a couple of books.


hmmm maybe when I do the bibliography for my book! Laughing You can have Harvard referencing then. I intentionally, organised the list chronologically in terms of when the books were published. I think that is valuable in itself. In the meantime your welcome to reorganise the list for yourself any way you like.

Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5102
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an update I have been in touch with the Wessex Astrologer and Oscar Hofman's new fixed stars book will be available to order from early October 2019.

If you want to get notified on its availability to purchase from Wessex Astrologer I suggest requesting to go on their mailing list.

https://www.wessexastrologer.com/contact-us/

Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Isaac Starkman



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 147
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander Marr tested the fixed stars for many years and summarized it in his book Prediction III (1986). The book is out of print but I can send a PDF copy to anyone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5102
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isaac Starkman wrote:
Quote:
Alexander Marr tested the fixed stars for many years and summarized it in his book Prediction III (1986). The book is out of print but I can send a PDF copy to anyone.


Hello Isaac,

That is very generous of you.

I would be very interested in obtaining a pdf copy. I have sent you a PM with my email details,

Thank you

Mark
_________________
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated