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Jeffrey Epstein
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 826

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject: Jeffrey Epstein Reply with quote

I have been puzzling over him, reading all the conspiracy theories that he didn't really die but was whisked to South America, or murdered rather than committed suicide to stop him talking.

I can't find a birth time for him anywhere, so I have guessed at a possible time. I need to be able to look at a clear chart.

I am trying to use this chart to answer all kinds of questions. In my observations, Mars is usually implicated in suicides, and transiting Neptune had been right over his natal Mars Venus conjunction, triggered proximately by transiting Jupiter. Not to say Mars couldn't show murder too. Maybe he was whisked away...

I also think that heavily transited exact Chiron Uranus opposition means something. This opposition was in play for years, but only occasionally exact within one degree. It is very important. It doesn't seem to aspect anything else in his chart. I have noticed that these unaspected bits not connected to personal planets seem to show that somebody is used by other people pulling the strings. That is just an observation, to be questioned. I only use for this hard aspects under one degree, and Mars' antiscion in 14 degrees Libra is probably just outside its grasp.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked my first astrologer about someone once before who had Moon square Saturn and Neptune and he said that in a man it showed some predispositions to perversions. I wonder if in his case Mercury square Saturn conjunct Neptune is part of what made up his sick mind (and Moon is in a wide orb opp Saturn). I felt like he was the lowest scum of the earth and I confess the news did not even make me feel sorry for him.

I am thinking he was maybe born around 8 am and had Saturn conjunct Neptune in the 8th and Pluto in the 7th. Saturnine people are very private also. He was someone who needed control and had no qualms in forcing others to do things against their will, so I think that would be a focal point. Neptune in the 8th makes more sense for suicide, especially if he died using drugs (I don't know the cause of death). He held dirt on people that helped him have power over them and I often think of using Pluto in the 7th in bad ways for that. It also creates a strong, magnetic personality type in many people. This would also put his 5th ruler in the 12th and I often associate Mercury with young people and children. He was a very private person and it is unclear even how he made his money, so as much as one would assume a luminary in the 10th makes sense for a famous person, it makes more sense in someone who is more open about their private life too. I am kind of wondering if maybe Saturn is even intercepted in the 8th, making an intercepted 2nd too, which often correlates with secretive things (a hidden house within a house).

If Neptune is in the 8th, then we also may never know how he really died, as it often creates that very frustrating cloud of confusion around a death.



Epstein never married and the chart you posted would have a very strong likelihood for marriage and probably a much more gentle person (Jupiter rising, Venus exalted lording the chart in the 11th).
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit, I am considering this chart too, not sure it would work for what I am looking at. If it is this chart, then he may have had a bad childhood and struggled socially in his youth, which turned around around the end of the 1980's, when he was in his late thirties. Major long term transits to his natal Moon start off bad from birth, and improve at the end of the 1980's. That is not to excuse him, as true evil can usually be seen by some aspects to Venus, which he has.

That Jupiter square Moons Nodes suggests wealth through his social contacts. I agree, it isn't obvious how he made his money. Transiting IsisTranspluto crossed the Descendant of this chart from the early 1960's, indicating contact with others who have power and wealth.

I see Saturn and Jupiter as the planets of wealth, and in this chart Saturn's antiscion squares his Midheaven and Jupiter squares his Ascendant, and both were getting positive long term major transits.

My guess is that he was brought to great wealth by his social contacts in high places, and equally he was thrown down and maybe even murdered when the long term good transits turned round against him.

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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully eventually a time of birth will be determined from a birth certificate.

I doubt he would be able to fake his death, since the FBI and DOJ are investigating it. Conspiracy theorists love to believe that everyone who works in the government is corrupt and bought, though. I suppose that is even easier to believe when someone like Epstein had the control of many powerful people. They would have to silence a lot of people, including those at the jail, the hospital he was transported to and everyone involved in the investigation. Easier said than done and I doubt most people would want to help someone like him. He is probably one of the most hated people in America.

It sounds like now that he is dead, it makes the investigation easier for everyone because there will be no motion to suppress evidence in the warrant to search his properties.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghislaine Maxwell's chart. No birth time known, so a noon chart.

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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prince Andrew's chart. AA data from astro data bank.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Andrew,_Prince_(Duke_of_York)

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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a composite chart for epstein and maxwell.. both charts were set to noon... both individual charts have a venus-mars conjunction, though in different signs, so it shows up as a conjunction in the composite - in opposition to uranus.. the chart is via sidereal zodiac.. transit of saturn-nodal axis highlights mercury in the comp chart at present...



Everyone’s A Conspiracy Theorist, Whether They Know It Or Not
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/08/12/everyones-a-conspiracy-theorist-whether-they-know-it-or-not/
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1017

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting that they all have Venus-Mars conjunctions. I think probably in both cases of Prince Andrew and Epstein with the Venus-Mars that it plays into a a sex addiction. Epstein said he could not go a day without having at least 3 orgasms and it was as necessary as eating. In both cases, Venus is probably last separating from Mars and thus carrying its light (is of the nature of Mars in matters it lords and in general). Venus is pretty tight with Mars and is just expecting it in Epstein's chart. The light a planet carries is significant for how it is expressed, especially for the inferiors. Knowing this, I also feel more strongly that Epstein has a day chart and Mars is out of sect. Mars in a water sign and at night is usually much more well controlled and of a more positive energy. I also think it helps make the time I posted make more sense because Mercury, the 5th ruler in the 12th is applying to Saturn the 1st lord and Mercury's last aspect would have been Mars, making Mercury also besieged.

Maxwell is strongly Saturnine and I think for her it was about status/money and living comfortably and she probably just overlooked everything that benefited her or simply did not care. Her Moon-Jupiter reminds me of Leona Helmsley's chart immediately and makes me think of a needy, flamboyant and selfish person (and even more so when Moon is conjunction NN). I wouldn't be surprised if her Moon was in the 8th as well. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Helmsley,_Leona
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moonwise



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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Location: USA-Germany

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject: Money?? Where does it show teacher? Hedge Fund? Reply with quote

Yes, I've been quite interested in this as well, especially since I have heard about this several years ago in the Florida news.

He started as a teacher at an elite school in NYC. The Dalton school. Can the chart show how he went from science teacher to hedge fund guy? Or as some state he was never really a hedge fund guy, but instead blackmailing the elite that he trafficked underage girls to.

Also the death is mysterious, wouldn't the 4th house as the "end of things" also show manner of death?
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanit - yes, the mars-venus conjunction is interesting showing up in all 3 charts.. in the mens charts - mars is earlier in the sign then venus and in the womens - venus is earlier then mars... in the case of epstein and prince andrew - this is called planetary war when the 2 planets are so close with mars winning out in both instances as i understand it... i take it this implies sex - mars - is the dominant force of the 2 planets - mars and venus..

i thought this quote was thought provoking...

"...Given the negative campaign over Russia, we are compelled to ask: What if a high-profile prisoner had died in a Moscow prison under circumstances similar to those surrounding Epstein’s death? There is no doubt that the Times (and the American media as a whole) would be denouncing claims of suicide and declaring Vladimir Putin the murderer.

"This is not a matter of speculation. It has already happened, in the dubious media campaign over the death of Sergei Magnitsky in a Russian prison, as well as the propaganda blitz over the alleged poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in England...."
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote;
Quote:
I am trying to use this chart to answer all kinds of questions. In my observations, Mars is usually implicated in suicides, and transiting Neptune had been right over his natal Mars Venus conjunction, triggered proximately by transiting Jupiter.


Yes for the violence implied in the act of suicide Mars would be involved.

I find that transiting Uranus (sudden change) is stationary and strong at this event of death. Transit Uranus is right on Epstein's Secondary progressed Mars.
From solar fire's pop-up interpretation of tr.UR-00-MA
Quote:
Orb 0°08' Applying
Aspect is Conjunction
This is an extremely intense time when you will feel ready to burst with energy. You may also feel aggressive, restless, pent-up, and ready to take any risk.



Also in Tertiary progressions a mars activation is due...
TP Mars is opposite his natal Mercury.
This show that he is very ready to act and doing something about his
situation which is quite hopeless.
This progression adds fuel to the transiting pluto conjunction adding further violence.

.

(Yes seeing now also in addition the secondary progressions, progressed mars is aspecting progressed mercury by 45' semisquare aspect. which is then triggered by the stationary Uranus transit.
Soo much mars mercury energy in progressions, a double whammy, creating a very stressed highstrung mental energy).
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

without a birth time the most important astro details - the angles - are missing...

i heard that the 2 guards overseeing his suicide watch have been given leave, as has the prison warden who oversaw all this.. does it make sense to others that someone who had 2 guards actively working at overseeing him might have missed his attempted suicide, or are there some other alternatives that need to be explored? i favour the later...

it reminds me of the 9-11 dynamic... a bunch of saudis on these planes fly into the world trade centre... and on a different plane a bunch of saudis fly out of the usa on sept 11th - the day all flights are supposed to be grounded.... for some strange reason the usa is still in bed with ksa... some things just don't add up... maybe i need to turn myself into a coincidence theorist...
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Edward White



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
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Location: UK

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epstein was discovered dead at 6:30AM, in New York. Here is the chart for that time.



Here are some of my thoughts. Feel free to criticize them.

This is rather curious chart; there is a trine between Sun (as lord asc) and the benefic Jupiter; however, Jupiter is accidentally the Lord 8th, of death. The moon, lady 12th, is conjoining Jupiter. Perhaps this is an example of when benefic planets kill? Also note Algol is in the 10th house (it is closer to the MC in mundo than it appears in the chart), another malefic significator. In turn, Neptune is nearly conjunct the cusp of the 8th; the death was indeed unexpected.

Mars, lord 9th is under the beams in the 12th house. I take this as a sign the matter will not be tried in a court.

The 3rd house is ruled by Venus. Venus is combust in the 12th house. I take that as a sign the true nature of this incident will not be communicated to the public. The moon, Lady of the 12th, is trine to Venus, Lady 10th. There is perhaps some secret concord between those in power and those who hold the secrets of the matter.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edward - I am not sure how to look at this chart. To me it seems like a chart for a discovery of an unconscious person. We don't know if he died before they found him or after, or at the hospital. He was not monitored for several hours before they discovered him. There is little information about his death but he was declared dead at the hospital, so he might have still been alive but unresponsive.

One interesting thing is that this chart is quite similar to Trump's, though. He has Mars in Leo at 26 degrees on the ASC and Moon in Sag at 21 degrees.

Quote:
Perhaps this is an example of when benefic planets kill?


Moon is applying to Mars, not Jupiter. It already aspected Jupiter, then Venus, then Sun (is separating from them), and is applying to Mars (giving the light of the ascendant ruler, Sun, to Mars). I would say this is probably an example where the benefics are not able to aid. Venus is combust in the 12th and Jupiter is retrograde and below the earth.

Combustion is said to be the best time to commit a crime and get away with it. I would say if anything Mars is suspect and it is peculiar how it relates to Trump's chart.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Tanit, I am considering this chart too, not sure it would work for what I am looking at. If it is this chart, then he may have had a bad childhood and struggled socially in his youth, which turned around around the end of the 1980's, when he was in his late thirties. Major long term transits to his natal Moon start off bad from birth, and improve at the end of the 1980's. That is not to excuse him, as true evil can usually be seen by some aspects to Venus, which he has.

That Jupiter square Moons Nodes suggests wealth through his social contacts. I agree, it isn't obvious how he made his money. Transiting IsisTranspluto crossed the Descendant of this chart from the early 1960's, indicating contact with others who have power and wealth.

I see Saturn and Jupiter as the planets of wealth, and in this chart Saturn's antiscion squares his Midheaven and Jupiter squares his Ascendant, and both were getting positive long term major transits.

My guess is that he was brought to great wealth by his social contacts in high places, and equally he was thrown down and maybe even murdered when the long term good transits turned round against him.


Hi Fleur, Tanit & Stefan: This is a tentative sidereally rectified chart for Epstein with 18° Capricorn rising. I don't know if it will help but suffice to say I think what you have presented is good as good a candidate for his birth time as any presented and my independent view supports your tropical chart findings.
At 07:56 am sidereal Capricorn is rising and Rahu is afflicting the ascendant delivering a strong desire character that can and will take the one to immoral extremes. Twelfth lord Jupiter in 4th house conjunct the Bhava Madhya provides a great sense of loss, and leads to public degradation because of its affliction to the 10th house of the public. Jupiter also aspects the 8th house of death and death-like experiences. Tenth lord Mars and fourth lord Venus are conjunct in the 2nd house indicating high status that also connected to well-known position and strong fixed assets. When he died transiting Ketu was closely afflicting transiting second lord Saturn in the twelfth house of endings, while transiting Rahu was afflicting Mars and Venus in the second house from the sixth house of injury. There is more but this will suffice.

Tertiary Mars is indeed opposite natal Mercury but the aspect was separating and was exact in early July coinciding with his latest arrest. The tension for self harm is certainly there and P3 Ketu is applying and afflicting natal Saturn too at his death.
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