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Horary basics
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Horary basics Reply with quote

1)I have noticed that sometimes astrologers use triplicity rulers as significators in horary. How and when should we use triplicity rulers? Should we use night time triplicity ruler for the night chart and day time ruler for the day chart?

2)If the quesited is more than one person, and there are no planets in the quesiteds house, how should I assign rulers for all.
Example: If the querent has 2 business partners, then the 7th is the partners house. How will I distinguish b/w the two partners

3)I sometimes use the dispositor of the quesited or querent's ruler when the actual ruler is not making any aspect. Can we do that?

4)Choice questions: Example: If I have to choose between two different courses, should I use 3rd for the first course and 3rd from the 3rd for the second. Or 9th for the first and turned 9th from the 9th for the other?

5) Sometimes the significator of the quesited or querent doesn't describe them very well but some other planet ruling a different cusp seems to answer the question. In such cases can we use that planet as a significator? Or would it be like we are trying to see something we *want* to see so we are drawn to a different planet. Is that delusional?

Thanks in advance for any help!
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Miss Watson



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 121

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiterrising, I have the same doubts! Waiting for the answers, too.

And I would make one more question: What's exactly "radix"?
Because I have been reading everywhere (including a Deb's explanation in this forum) but I still cannot understand. If someone give us an example based on some Horary posted here I would hightly appreciate.

Sorry for my intrusion, but I found this topic interesting Very Happy
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Watson wrote:
Jupiterrising, I have the same doubts! Waiting for the answers, too.

And I would make one more question: What's exactly "radix"?
Because I have been reading everywhere (including a Deb's explanation in this forum) but I still cannot understand. If someone give us an example based on some Horary posted here I would hightly appreciate.

Sorry for my intrusion, but I found this topic interesting Very Happy


No, you are not intruding at all. Feel free to comment, I actually enjoy discussing with everyone.

Radix is the original chart. Example if you draw a chart now with Leo rising and Aquarius on the descendant. Then that is the original chart and houses in that chart are called radix houses.
We differentiate radix and turned houses only when we are discussing something where we are using a turned ruler.
So If I ask a question "Is my boyfriend cheating?" Then Sun is me, Saturn is him and turned 5th house(5th from the 7th) or turned 12th house ruler is the 3rd person. Turned 7th from the 5th is the radix 11th. Turned 12th from the 7th is the radix 6th house.
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Miss Watson



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 121

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiterrising wrote:

No, you are not intruding at all. Feel free to comment, I actually enjoy discussing with everyone.

Radix is the original chart. Example if you draw a chart now with Leo rising and Aquarius on the descendant. Then that is the original chart and houses in that chart are called radix houses.
We differentiate radix and turned houses only when we are discussing something where we are using a turned ruler.
So If I ask a question "Is my boyfriend cheating?" Then Sun is me, Saturn is him and turned 5th house(5th from the 7th) or turned 12th house ruler is the 3rd person. Turned 7th from the 5th is the radix 11th. Turned 12th from the 7th is the radix 6th house.


Thank you so much for the explanation! I finally understood the meaning of radix!
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quisquis



Joined: 11 Jul 2019
Posts: 9

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radix is Latin for root, hence theoriginal chart which may give rise to derived positions or charts.
We need to beware of asking too much of astrology, it has a very limited vocabulary. If there are 2 business partners they will both be described at the 7, maybe it is not possible to differentiate them and you need a different question at the appropriate time. Some suggest the house you live in as 4 and the one you are contemplating buying as the 4 of 4 or the 7. Abramelin says this is nonsense, the second house is not the house of the first house, the housing situation ought to be read from the 4 and its lord etc. To me this makes more sense.
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Edward White



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
Posts: 37
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding question 2: This thread may help. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10446

Regarding "Radical": When using horary astrology, only certain charts can yield reliable answers. These charts are known as "Radical" charts. Attempting to judge a chart which is not radical would produce unreliable results.

A rather lengthy description is found in Lilly:
https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=WZwEalHuM-gC&dq=christian%20astrology%20considerations%20before%20judgment&pg=PA121#v=onepage&q&f=false

and here is another definition from a 19th century dictionary of astrology
https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=guZhAAAAcAAJ&dq=a%20dictionary%20of%20astrology&pg=PA340#v=onepage&q&f=false (the entry for "radical" is at the bottom of the page)

as to how these strictures came about, this video may be of interest: http://theastrologypodcast.com/2018/02/27/the-origins-of-horary-astrology/
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1015

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jupiterrising - these are all questions that come up every now and then and some people have already addressed some of your questions above, so I won't try to go through each question.

For dispositor use, here is an old thread I made:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5786&sid=52397aa9f4be06a2141948f8c257c594

As far as when to use a triplicity ruler (or exaltation ruler) or not, that is up to the astrologer. I have seen Lilly and others do this and don't have anything offhand to show as an example (it is too bad you didn't ask about this last week because I was reading an article about Lilly and Bonatti in cheating horaries and there was mention of triplicity rulers in it or using other planets when the primary planet did not aspect its own house, etc).

Some people use day versus night triplicity rulers and some do not. If you want to follow the standard Lilly essential dignity table (modified from Ptolemy), such as the one referenced in the Skyscript tutorials, you would use day and night. I confess that I tend to break the rules and do not use day versus night, and have seen other astrologers do this (which has influenced me not using them), but I see horary as an art form more so than a perfect science (not that science is clean all of the time either - some things still require art a bit).

I think using critical thinking skills in general helps you to figure out when to use other potential rulers. It also requires reading as many sources and talking to as many people as it takes before you decide techniques that work for you. There are also the Hellenistic triplicity rulership people may use (from Dorotheus of Sidon in the Carmen Astrologicum). It might be worthwhile to spend time posting some quotes on the use of other rulers in horary but I don't have the time right now - I am working a lot of hours.
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I couldn't reply here earlier. Thank you to everyone for your input. I will check the links and write back.
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quisquis wrote:
Radix is Latin for root, hence theoriginal chart which may give rise to derived positions or charts.
We need to beware of asking too much of astrology, it has a very limited vocabulary. If there are 2 business partners they will both be described at the 7, maybe it is not possible to differentiate them and you need a different question at the appropriate time. Some suggest the house you live in as 4 and the one you are contemplating buying as the 4 of 4 or the 7. Abramelin says this is nonsense, the second house is not the house of the first house, the housing situation ought to be read from the 4 and its lord etc. To me this makes more sense.


Hi, buying a house is always a 4th house matter. If you find a house you are interested in buying, then you draw the chart with the question "should I buy this house?" It is a 4th house matter. You will have to check the condition of the 4th house to know the condition of the house itself and aspects b/w ruler of 1st house and 7th house or aspects b/w moon and 7th for the buying prospects. If no aspects, then you wont buy the house no matter how good or bad the house is.

The house 4 vs house 7 is perhaps choosing b/w two houses? I am not sure about that.

If we are considering relocation then we look at 1st house vs 7th house to know how things will be when we relocate to another place, I think.
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edward White wrote:
Regarding question 2: This thread may help. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10446

Regarding "Radical": When using horary astrology, only certain charts can yield reliable answers. These charts are known as "Radical" charts. Attempting to judge a chart which is not radical would produce unreliable results.

A rather lengthy description is found in Lilly:
https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=WZwEalHuM-gC&dq=christian%20astrology%20considerations%20before%20judgment&pg=PA121#v=onepage&q&f=false

and here is another definition from a 19th century dictionary of astrology
https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=guZhAAAAcAAJ&dq=a%20dictionary%20of%20astrology&pg=PA340#v=onepage&q&f=false (the entry for "radical" is at the bottom of the page)

as to how these strictures came about, this video may be of interest: http://theastrologypodcast.com/2018/02/27/the-origins-of-horary-astrology/


Hi Edward. I checked that link to the forum thread where you discuss the choice questions. That was a very helpful link, Thank you.
I will save the link you gave on how to use the triplicity rulers.

I could not go through the other two links because I don't understand that language.
So what do you do with charts that are not radical? Do you not read them at all? I think it must be Frawley or some other astrologer who said that all charts can be read. All of them give the answer, I think. But I am not sure.

I also didn't know that there is a horary podcast. Will listen to it later. Which other horary podcasts do you recommend?
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
Hi Jupiterrising - these are all questions that come up every now and then and some people have already addressed some of your questions above, so I won't try to go through each question.

For dispositor use, here is an old thread I made:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5786&sid=52397aa9f4be06a2141948f8c257c594

As far as when to use a triplicity ruler (or exaltation ruler) or not, that is up to the astrologer. I have seen Lilly and others do this and don't have anything offhand to show as an example (it is too bad you didn't ask about this last week because I was reading an article about Lilly and Bonatti in cheating horaries and there was mention of triplicity rulers in it or using other planets when the primary planet did not aspect its own house, etc).

Some people use day versus night triplicity rulers and some do not. If you want to follow the standard Lilly essential dignity table (modified from Ptolemy), such as the one referenced in the Skyscript tutorials, you would use day and night. I confess that I tend to break the rules and do not use day versus night, and have seen other astrologers do this (which has influenced me not using them), but I see horary as an art form more so than a perfect science (not that science is clean all of the time either - some things still require art a bit).

I think using critical thinking skills in general helps you to figure out when to use other potential rulers. It also requires reading as many sources and talking to as many people as it takes before you decide techniques that work for you. There are also the Hellenistic triplicity rulership people may use (from Dorotheus of Sidon in the Carmen Astrologicum). It might be worthwhile to spend time posting some quotes on the use of other rulers in horary but I don't have the time right now - I am working a lot of hours.


Thanks for that link on the use of dispositor Tanit. Basically what I understood from that thread is that astrologers use the dispositer of the quesited to know the strength of the quesited.
I use the dispositer of the querent and/or the quesited as a significator if/when the actual significator is not applying to quesited/querent. I don't know where I learned it, but I have been doing this for a while.
Inthe link you provided, I think astrojinn mentions that MashaAllah used this method. But in the example both the querent and quesited were the same planet Mercury, so I am not sure if it applies to charts where the querent and quesited is different.

In the link that Edward provides, the astrologer uses both day and night triplicity rulers regardless of what time the chart is made.

I agree that horary is divination and the chart speaks to the person who draws it.
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have recently developed an interest in medical horary. Can someone please provide some links to learn the basics like which house/sign rules what organ/disease. Which house is the doctor and which house the treatment etc.
Thanks.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1015

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Predictive medical astrology is known as decumbiture. There is a tutorial you can read here for some basics: https://www.skyscript.co.uk/decumbiture1.html
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
Predictive medical astrology is known as decumbiture. There is a tutorial you can read here for some basics: https://www.skyscript.co.uk/decumbiture1.html


Thanks Tanit.
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Jupiterrising



Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 99

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a google search to find out where I read that, all charts can be read. I was pretty sure I read that somewhere but didn't know which astrologer had said that. When I googled "How important is a radical chart in horary" I came across a Skyscript thread:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5061&sid=eb6a06e27bfcd06f7cce96005a3ee94b

I didn't know the podcast astrologer Chris Brennan was a member here.
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