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Help? Will we get back together (separated after 12 yrs)

 
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 104
Location: Earth

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Help? Will we get back together (separated after 12 yrs) Reply with quote

I am hoping someone will be able to help me out a little bit.
I've been looking at this chart for two days - going back and forth with what is what and who is who. I may of course be biased towards my own hopes of the outcome.

It seems like I'm not able to attach the picture of the chart?
But the chart was cast on July 26th at 16.17 in Edinburgh, UK.



Background:
We have been together for over 12 yrs and have two children together.
I asked him to move out on June 2nd. At this point in time I know we are not going to get together yet - if we are it's going to take time. And maybe it's simply too early to tell or to ask the question. We are both hurting a lot and I only want to try it again if he's willing to change our relationship to deepen it.
We are currently in counselling, but our goals are different. I'm there to try to get our communication going towards a better place, and also to offer him a reunion IF he's ready to embark on a journey of transformation with me. He's there right now just to sort out practical things, such as money and the children. He's said he'll never forgive me and he is not looking to get back together at all.

Horary chart using tropical zodiac and Regio houses:
I am Mars, he is Venus. The Moon is either "the matter" as in our relationship - or it's a second sig for myself whereas the Sun would then be a second sig for him. I also see the possibility of the Sun being the counsellor.
I better add that Neptune conjunct the IC. A state of confusion with everything: with where we will live in the world, how we will work in deviding the kids between us, whether we even want to get back together or not.

About the obvious combustion:
In light of the combustion, I think we need to think of the situation as it is now... It is not a good situation and I think it is perfectly normal for both of us to be under the Sun's rays or combust now during this very very difficult time. It would be more strange if we were both represented as if everything was ok, which it is not at all in this kind of life's crisis.
We are both very weakened in our power. I am further away from the Sun - so I am a bit stronger ... but the combustion describes his situation well, he is very much weakened in his life, at his worst point ever, unable to make any kind of decisions for now because I am not willing to talk about the money yet - and he is in total fear. The most difficult we've ever been through during our relationship. We've been together for over 12 yrs and we have 2 children together. It is always going to be very difficult both to separate, but also to reunite or reconcile or even just to come to the necessary agreements needed after separation.

BTW, I believe combustion is not only all negative when we look at the big longer term picture - it is a difficult time, but it is also like going through the fire of purification - you become stronger afterwards.

I am wondering if the Sun can act as transfer of light since it is connected to both planets by conjunction aspect and both planets are dancing with the Sun for a while?
Quote:
Translation of light is where a planet separates from one significator - by conjunction or aspect - and immediately applies to another (whilst still within orb of the planet it is separating from). It carries the influence of the former to the latter and thereby creates a connection between them.


But maye the whole combustion thing is just to show me that I can not see the final answer from this chart. As Lily said:
"Beware in all Judgments, when the Significator of the question is either Combust, or in Opposition to the Sun, he will then signifie nothing of the matter, no good, nor is he able to bring anything to perfection."

Clearly he is about to move towards me into the sign I'm positioned. Whether that means we will simply be able to be on the same page through our counselling to reach and agreement or whether it it means we will reunite, I don't know, since Venus and Mars are not in aspect right now but separated by the Sun - so it remains a question in my mind.


Interpretation/perspectives:
I am Mars in Leo with negative reception to Venus who is placed in my sign of fall, Cancer. Total rejection. However, if Sun is also his sig = then Sun receives Mars. Mars does not receive him as Venus, but the Moon receives him. So the receptions are somehow mixed up there. Mars is in an almost perfect trine to Jupiter, although separating - and it is also in a separating square to the Moon as well as aspected by and applying conjunction with the Sun who just moved into a wide orb with Mars. (http://skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.html).

I'm not sure why I am trining Jupiter, unless it is simply indicating my money/assets - but we have not come to a conclusion about that yet and I'm not even ready to talk about it (hence Jup is retro).

He receives the Moon (myself or the matter) into its sign of exaltation which seems a bit strange since it means the Moon is being allowed to do whatever she wants? The Moon is only 1° applying to conjunct the DSC. This is what confuses me in understanding the chart fully.

The Moon is transferring that square to Mars and the trine to Saturn towards the sextile with Merc and then it's last aspect before leaving that sign is the sextile to Venus...(I think it's communication about our money issues and his future home that his parents will be involved with financing because that's exactly what our situation is now). Mercury interferes with the Moon's sextile to Venus - which I think might mean that the money situation or his parents may be interfering. He's in his 2nd (very focused on money), has recently conjunct Merc within 2nd (I believe he probably came to some kind of agreement with his parents about how much money they can give him to buy his own flat).

IF we consider the outers, the Moon is actually now in almost perfect trine with Pluto, separating. Pluto is always separative - but Pluto can also be transformative in a positive way if people choose to transform.

He is about to change signs and go into his 3rd house of communication. Both Venus and Mars will keep the aspect with Sun all the way through Leo (in the counselling sessions?) and they probably both feel a lack of understanding from the other and feel that their point of view is not heard/seen properly. The Venus and Sun will come together and trine Jupiter (my money and our home) and then go forward towards Mars and all of them conjunct in Virgo - but still within the 9th house/his 3rd. Mars evades, slips into Virgo just before Sun and Venus can catch up = maybe it means that it will be too late for him to reunite with me by that time.

There is also a consideration of a square to Uranus.

IF we look at the Sun as the second sig for a man - the question needs to be asked about how will we ever see a union/reunion with the Sun in a positive way if we only focus on combustion and nothing else? An applying conjunction eventually ends up in cazimi or the heart of the Sun. If the Sun is a sig for a man, then the woman's planet needs to be able to come into conjunction with it for there to be a total union.

IF he is the Sun, then Venus and Mercury are now hidden from sight - that could mean that his parents already came to some kind of agreement about how much money they are capable/willing to give him - but that is hidden from me. It may also mean that they are all debilitated because he is actually not taking responsibility for his own mistakes towards me fully and therefore I'm not willing to work with him to resolve the money yet.


Timing:
I believe that one degree from Moon to DSC is one week in this case. Something will happen next week that shifts things, so the Moon perfects the conjunction and shortly after that, Venus moves into Leo, probably 2 weeks - and dances with the Sun and Mars in Leo for a while.

He is placed in Moon's sign so there is mutual reception there and Moon will sextile him in about 6-7 units/weeks...but first comes into a sextile with the retro Mercury in about 3 weeks.

IF there is indeed a reunion in that conjunction which will eventually happen with Mars and Sun and Venus in Virgo - then that is a long time from now. Maybe there is no reunion since Mars evades into Virgo.[/quote]
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 874

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi lifestudent - I edited your post to include the chart. Tiny pic is closing so I used this website and chose the BBCode full linked option
https://imgbb.com/

Your post is very sincere and obviously an important issue for you, and I hope things work out for the best for you either way.

A few comments I noticed - a planet is combust within 8 degrees 30 arc, so I would call Mars just under the beams (within 17 degrees) which is not quite as difficult, although that aspect is getting tighter with time. Venus is out of sign of the Sun but within orb and I would call this combust. You mentioned both of you are weak here and I think that is shown in a few ways but especially the fact that both planets are out of sect and are peregrine too. Venus is definitely weaker by being combust though and some authors would say it is powerless to act at all. There is a nasty Saturn/Pluto influence that is separating (both Venus and Moon previously aspected it) and it could be that the worst is behind you although still within orb a bit. Venus took a heavy hit by Saturn.

The Moon on the DSC - this is very common in relationship questions where someone is asking about the other person's feelings/intentions, etc. The Moon is focused on that other person and is helping to describe the situation. Lilly would say it also suggests the querent is more ardent than the quesited but that is not always the case. It is very common for the Moon to end up in the house that represents the matter asked about. For example, asking about a job and getting it in the 10th, or school and getting it in the 9th. It shows a rooted chart.

Do I think the Sun is acting to translate light? No, since both aspects occur in the future (translation would require the Sun to separate from one and apply to the other), but Venus will aspect the Sun in Leo (Mars leaves Leo into Virgo before the conjunction occurs). I honestly think the Sun shows a period of change (as you rightly mentioned, both planets are moving in a way that would bring them in a future aspect with the Sun) and probably also shows some confusion right now for both of you besides the fact that you are both peregrine (wandering), but especially for your husband since the aspect is much tighter and he is at a critical degree. I think it is emphasizing the early stages (early degree too) of a significant change.

You are in between the Sun, meaning you cannot see one another through it yet. The Sun represents things like truth and understanding but it can often suggest either an ending or a new beginning too due to the nature of the combusiton process, which is like a conclusion/new beginning/purification process through the fire. It seems to emphasize change within your husband more so than you though given the tighter orb, however you are also lorded by it or maybe caused this change. It appears to be the strongest planet in the chart too (since the Moon is afflicted by Algol) so it is likely something to pay attention to.

Does this change emphasize an ending or a new beginning? It is hard to say isn't it? The Sun being so strong and positive (in its Joy, in its own house, in sect - all around really good) planet and it would be odd for it to be a negative force in a chart but it rules the 9th house and you probably know more than I do how this might relate to your situation and this transformation that is being shown, such as your belief system or religion being a strong force around you both. It could be therapy also but I don't normally think of the 9th as that subject matter - it at least might emphasize some acceptance and understanding in the future. I honestly rarely see the Sun in Leo being a negative force in a chart and it is personally one of my favorite transits of the entire year. The lights show life and potential in a chart and when they are strong it can be a very powerful force.

That being said, the Moon as the other light, the most important in horary, does not look easy here. The Moon is exalted but within 5 degree orb of Caput Algol on the 7th cusp and separating from Saturn in the 2nd while it applies to Mercury in the 8th, ruler of the 8th retrograde. It is heavily focused on the husband. This could be emphasizing in part the financial trouble you briefly mentioned or worry for your husband, especially since Mercury is carrying the light of Venus in mutual application to the Moon (retrograde). Mercury rules money too. But the 8th often represents losses or endings. This could be a significant factor for your husband, since it is carrying his light in the chart. This could be something that occurs next that has an influence in what happens. I feel like this aspect is suggesting a lot of difficulty here and it makes me question the positive nature of the Sun that I would have normally assumed was a positive change that might eventually have some potential for reconciliation. It seems to show something more negative and difficult. Mercury translates light but Moon would have aspected Venus via mutual reception without it and it is retrograde, which is not good for perfection of a matter (it can show reversals, change of mind/heart, etc.). The fact that your planets are not coming together, other than the Moon applying to Mercury which carries the light of Venus, to me suggests that it would be unlikely you get back together without a lot of effort. Maybe the Sun in Leo is an eventual positive ending rather than a new beginning. Hopefully that isn't the case. Maybe you can make better sense of Mercury's signification than I can. It is possible it shows that financial concerns are so significant to him that it influences his feelings over the situation but even if that is true he is not showing much positive energy around the matter. Venus by nature is a good planet though and an easier planet to obtain, if you think of it that way - it would be generally easier to reconcile with this person than if he were, say, Saturn. Venus yields more easily to change in general too.

The children are probably Jupiter? Or is this a lover? I normally think of Mars-Jupiter well aspected in fire as a physical relationship and it lords the 5th but it is possible it is just showing your focus on the kids.

Whatever happens, please keep us posted. Best of luck.

-moderator


Last edited by Tanit3333 on Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 104
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Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[img]https://imgur.com/EpxIVan[/img]

So I found this website to upload images as it seems to not be possible to upload attachments in this forum.

Anyway, I am still hoping I can get some help with this one.

I took a look at the chart again this morning and I think it basically tells the story of what is going on now, that it's all about communication and assets/money, judging from the placement of sigs plus the Nnode and POF in 8th and 9th, his 2nd and 3rd. It's also about the children, end of matter 4th Regio is in 5th wsh. I've also started to think about relocation, or travelling abroad for a while and leaving the children with him for a while, but not making any final arrangements about them yet. The best thing about this chart is that the Moon is conjunct DSC and exalted. I think it may not even be possible yet to see the final outcome, combustion and Neptune on IC.

IF we take the end of the matter as ruler of 4th Regio, then that is Jupiter, placed in 1st Regio (2nd wsh), so the ball is in my court so to speak ... and nothing will be clear until it goes direct in August or maybe not until about the Sun will make the trine to bring about the necessary communication in about 12 units of time (weeks or months). Since I've already stated that I want to approach this the way that the law does about separation, 12 months before doing anything final about assets and a divorce can be finalised. Until then it is only a separation and the couple is given time to do counselling or get to the bottom of whether they truly want to divorce or to get back together.

The mutual reception of Moon and Venus is expressing that there is respect for the relationship, but rejection of Mars = and the reception of Mars by the Sun shows that there is respect and allowance for Mars to communicate, but at the same time it renders Venus powerless to act and brings about his weakness.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 874

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like we posted at the samd time and you are mentioning financial stuff again, which makes sense given the 8th house emphasis. It didn't occur to me but the 9th might be describing the legal process, which would favor you, if that is the case (Mars is in the 9th lord's sign). If this were to go to court, he is clearly very poorly placed. Having Jupiter 5th lord in the house of allies would probably show you get custody of all of the kids if it comes to that.

Again, good luck.
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 104
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Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so very much for your delineation of the chart and for putting the picture of it into my post above.

Thanks for pointing out the positives of the Sun, it is of course in its own sign and also in its joy, so maybe it is actually there to help. Yes I believe that I am causing or offering the purification process and am trying to help him with that through the counselling. I already started my own healing process 10 months ago and am still on that path of healing and my belief system is indeed playing a part in our counselling sessions.

Quote:
The lights show life and potential in a chart and when they are strong it can be a very powerful force.


Thank you for pointing this out.

Quote:
The fact that your planets are not coming together, other than the Moon applying to Mercury which carries the light of Venus, to me suggests that it would be unlikely you get back together without a lot of effort. Maybe the Sun in Leo is an eventual positive ending rather than a new beginning.


Yes I already know that we will not be able to reunite unless making a great effort because I already decided that I am not willing to go back to status quo, I know it's not going to work. Therefore I am approaching all of this with love and light, trying to reach out and grab his hand to lift him up, even though it puts me through a lot of pain while doing it. We have a session together tomorrow and I am going to express gratitude for all the good times and bad times from the core of my heart. If that can help make a positive ending then it has been worth it.

Quote:
Maybe you can make better sense of Mercury's signification than I can. It is possible it shows that financial concerns are so significant to him that it influences his feelings over the situation but even if that is true he is not showing much positive energy around the matter.


I think you hit the nail on its head there, his financial concerns are governing his feelings and capability of dealing with what's at hand.

I am hoping to deal with all issues without any legal process, but rather in an agreement between us. In reality he has no legal rights to any money/assets because it's in my name, so he is trying to bring me to give him a "fair share". We also both want to have equal and shared custody of the children.

Thank you so much for your perspectives again. Very much appreciated.
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
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Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's been 10 weeks now since he moved out. He's already been on some dates while I've simply been allowing myself to feel into the grief and sorrow - but now knowing that I want him to move back. I've been communicating and trying to get a message straight into his heart about the importance of the children, of the love we had and how it is possible and has been possible for a lot of people to get through difficult times and into better times. That's what a marriage is all about. Relationships don't last because of good times, they last because the hard times are handled with love and care. I've been angry and he's been angry and then I've shown him compassion and understanding because I know he is trying to divert his pain by running too quickly into the rebound dating game and it's not healthy.

Now I know that I really would just want him to move back home and for our family unit to hold together and work through things together as a team and rekindle our romance again. I know we may not be quite ready for that yet ... but am hoping he will come to his senses and value and respect our relationship and family more than this new dating girlfriend.

So I asked last night if my message was actually reaching his heart.

Here is the chart:
[

I am Mars and he is Venus who is coming into the cazimi of the Sun and we are all placed in the 5th. Maybe that actually means that the message is indeed getting into his heart. Venus is then moving from the Sun towards Mars, but the conjunction won't perfect until the next sign, so some kind of shift needs to happen I guess.

Mercury is my 3rd, my message or communication. It has just moved into the same house/sign - but it is not reaching a trine with his 3rd until in about 14 units of time.

From these two factors it seems like he is actually getting my message, or about to get it and taking it to heart.

But then I see the Moon in its detriment, but in Mars' exaltation. It's conjunct Pluto which is very separative and it's not making any other aspects after that other than the sextile to POF if you count that. So I am not sure what to make of the chart since with this Moon.

I am crossing my fingers and holding on to the hope of him being receptive of my messages and expression of love and for us being able to reconcile in the near future.

Can you help me read into this chart?


Last edited by lifestudent on Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Lifestudent,

I think there is sn underlying question to the original question " if my message was actually reaching his heart?" . I think actually what the querent wants to know is that " if they will renuion" ,because you say " but now knowing that I want him to move back".

What I notice is that the AC is in its late degrees which implies the matter has now been finallised, but somehow the querent is not aware of it.

As you say , Mars will change signs before Mars cathces up with her. That is avoidance. To my knowladge and from my exprience from my own charts, when avoiadance occurs, the second planet meeting with the 1st. planet in the next sign does not perfect the matter.

With regards to Mercury, it will be combust the Sun by the time, he perfects with the quiested 3rd. ruler. So, I think this as the queisted may not see the message/ ignore it/ may not understand it.

And Moon... well, in her detriment yet VOC as far as I can see ( Imgur is banned where I am and I cld. hardly open the chart and it is not clear ) is to show the lack of the querent in the matter, and there does not seem to be much progress by being VOC.

I am sorry, but I can not see any positives here.

5th. house is heavily emphasized in this chart, and Venus being Cazimi in the 5th. may well mean the dates quisted is now going through.

Fiercy and agrresive Mars is also in Leo, disposed by Sun making Mars more aggressive and fierce. Yet Mars is combust to Sun, and again making Mars more fiercy and more aggresive ( I think this is to show querent's state of mind due to the any romantic affairs quisted may be going through now)

I just wonder if the querent asked about quisted dates or about his current sitatution subconsciously.

Well... I am a student of horary.

And I still think you can ask what you wanted to ask with a new chart when you feel ready.

I can see how you are passionate with your marriage. I wish things will end in the way you want and I pray God will be with you.

Kindest regards
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Breeze above. I did consider in the first chart that Sun could represent a new third party unknown to the querent but didn't want to jump the gun. I am sorry you are going through this and hope matters improve. My best friend went through a similar divorce and her husband tried to come back after a new girlfriend and my best friend no longer wanted to be with him at that point. As I said before, Mars changes signs before Venus can eventually meet up with it later.

I often see an increase in breakup horaries around Mars-Venus aspects in transit, unfortunately.
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
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Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for your answers.
About too late a degree, I have always thought it was only the last two degrees that were considered too late.

IF the chart is only read with regards to the question of the message reaching him, I would use my 3rd to his 3rd or his 1st lord, so Mer to Jupiter. or Mer to Venus aspects. I get that Mercury will come to a trine to Jup and Mer will be under the Sun's beams, but not combust though. This may mean that the message is all about our children and the importance of the family and rekindling our own love and romance for the sake of that higher value (which was actually the message). We also see that when both Mars and Venus move into Virgo they are both received by Mercury by sign, and at the same time Mer perfects its trine to Jup, so maybe that is the timing for the message finally reaching his heart (but too late by that time).

Well that day I was in my last day of hope of him coming to his senses and I truly believed we could still work our way through this and put our children first and work on getting our relationship back to good terms as it used to be... but it is too late now. I think he's forming a new relationship with that other woman. I did already know about her at the time of the question... but I thought that in horary she would be represented by his 5th lord, not my 5th lord. I would have thought my 5th lord would be our children or my lover - not his lover. So I thought his lover was Saturn with traditional rulers (it is a woman that works at the same place as him) or maybe Uranus as his 5th lord in his 8th house = having sex with her.

So two days after this chart I moved out of my home and left him with our two children. I packed all my things and moved to a friends house. I decided to take a very strong and courageous course of action so that he is now left with what he asked for, a wrecked/broken family and he has to take care of putting together the broken pieces, it is not left to me. So I explained it all to the kids and they understood that because mommy was hurting too much in her heart, she would have to get away to regain her strength. So I will most likely be travelling from next week on, for a few months. I wonder if the Sun is really our kids that he is now left with all the work and responsibility for - at least for a few months.

Somehow it seems from the chart that he will indeed move away from this other woman and towards me if she is the Sun, but I will have moved on by that time, as you pointed out = Mars avoids by changing signs first. It will be too late for him as you said, he's done too much damage now and the trust will have gone and I don't really have respect for him anymore. But if he does try some kind of a comeback, it will most likely be within 6-12 weeks according to the chart.

So it actually feels too late now, I am moving on and coming to terms with this being final and I am taking a strong course to move into my own freedom and liberation from him.

I wonder what the Nnode in the 4th means though, as the 4th is the end of the matter in question? OR, if the 10th is the end of the matter as the 4th from his house = Saturn conjunct the Snode might mean the new courtship with that woman is about to end ... but since the Moon is also there VOC it may also mean that our relationship has also ended and that he is now left all alone with our children?
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone?

What is your take on those significators in the last chart I posted, the Sun and Saturn when it comes to the Sun being our children as my 5th and Saturn being the other woman as his 5th and the conjunction with south node?
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

14 days yesterday from the question.

Mercury shows 14 units of time to perfect the trine to Jupiter.
Last night he sent me a message saying that he has decided to stop seeing the other woman and he has told her that. But he emphasised it is not because of me but because he wants to put his energy and focus into taking care of the children. He has stated to me that even though he would stop seeing her he would not come back to me ever.

I am not sure yet if I can or should believe him. But this does fit with the last chart from Aug 12th where he is cazimi with the Sun (children) and the 14 time units for Mer to reach Jup since my message was about the importance of the family and for him to be there for the children now.
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EleanorLouise



Joined: 16 Jun 2018
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Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought

I see you using whole signs. I suppose regio and tropical houses produce weird houses in your region?

So i decided to go with equal signs.
Mercury rules his 9th and 12th sign and your 3rd and 6th house.


Moon I would see a period of dead/inactive time since it will make an aspect early in the next sign. This could be enough where it's not truly VOC. (Just a thought/theory)

either way mercury rules his 12th and 12th is house of secret enemies, self-undoing, and isolation.

To me him sending you that message probably showed the moon+mercury aspect which (have to think back) was an opposition I believe.
So what you want is probably opposite to what he wants.
idk the dynamic here as to him saying he can never forgive you. But with what he is saying and the last chart you posted in this thread probably indicates he needs time to reconnect with himself and figure out stuff on his own. Might be best to reconnect with him (sincerely) as a friend and let things marinade.

Slightly random thought:
I remember I did a reading for someone about if they would romantically met someone during a certain time period. Anyway the planets ruling sitter and potential partner were in opposition. This sitter did unknowingly meet their next partner, but the sitter was approaching the person as a friend and the other person was approaching the sitter as someone they had a strong crush on. Just the other person didn't act on the sitter during that time period.

i find from experience oppositions has almost a hidden nature and it might be because the planets are in each other debility. I find many times say planet A is in planet B's debility that Planet B doesn't think Planet A has a strong interest in them (whether romantic oriented question or not.) Not saying this is the case here....just a passing thought that I felt like typing up lol
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