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Dealing with combustion

 
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Dealing with combustion Reply with quote

Hi
While reading one of Joseph Cranes's books I realised one can heal the effects of combustion.
Holden says that Jaqueline Onassis could only have a typical mercurial job when she got out of the limelight as she has sun and mercury in Leo in the 10th place.
I then assume that if your career planets are under the sun and the sun and the sun rules say, the 3rd or 4th ,you can only show your true mercirial or venusian colours when you stay away from siblings,neighbourhood,father etc.
But does our chart show why this is the case?Why would 3rd or any other house matters hinder us in any way?
I can speak from experience and say people represented by Leo's house block my creativity and speech as they're too heavy ,conservative but then sun is in heavy capricorn in 8th.
Whats your personal experience with combustion?Does what I say apply too you too?
Thanks


Last edited by TT on Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3509
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've had other discussions on the effects of combustion in natal charts at various times over the years. Opinions ranged from it was a powerful force, to it isn't worth mentioning.

The problem seems to be the lack of a universally accepted or near universally accepted definition of what it is that combustion does. If we check some older authors we might see things like it completely robs the planet of its power, which seems more than a little extreme.

What might, and I repeat might, be a good way to look at combustion is the way it is used in horary. In horary it symbolizes things that are hidden, and horary astrologers will tell us that symbolism works well. So perhaps we might wish to look at it as the significance of the planet is hidden from view or perhaps hidden from the native himself. We've all heard, read about, or maybe know people with what seems to be a particular talent who have no idea they have it, Perhaps that's indicated by combustion in a chart. That's just a suggestion.

I don't have Jackie Kennedy's chart in front of me, but her mercurial abilities could be said to have been obscured by her husband's light. He was a popular President with considerable charm, and his presence as well as his job, obscured her abilities. She upgraded the White House with considerable talent, but despite that being something many could not do or could not do as well, it pales in comparison to the things a President does. I agree, that is pure 100% hindsight astrology.

I'm not crazy about the use of the word "heal," in this case. I like to leave that word to medical professionals or home remedies. But I do like the idea that the chart is not a concrete block with our lives chiseled into it. If some of our talents are hidden, then by all means identify the issue and work to bring them out.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 900

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combustion is very common, especially since Mercury and Venus are always close by. I would not assume all combustion is crippling. It weakens the strength of a planet but the planet may still function in some capacity. It can represent a challenge that can be overcome with effort.

To me, when the Sun lords the chart, it is especially confusing on what it could mean for the planets being combust. Perhaps self defeat of those areas or just a bad experience with life or health? For example, serial killer Ted Bundy's chart. He has Leo rising with Sun in Sag near most of his planets (in and out of the sign within orb).

In the charts of people who die of young ages, it seems a little common for the ascendant ruler to be combust itself, such as in River Phoneix's chart with the lord of the 1st combust in the 10th. Combustion in the 10th or via the 10th ruler is very common in celebrities in general though because the power of the Sun brings them into the limelight in some fashion but at the same time it can lead to sacrifices in other areas. They can also have secretive things that others find fascinating (the hidden nature of the planet not able to be seen). When the 1st house ruler is overwhelmed by the power of the Sun, it is not surprising that one would turn to drugs and alcohol too.

Actress Jessica Lang is an example where the Sun lords the chart and combusts planets in the 10th. I don't know enough about her to comment much on how that played out, but I would think of it as similar to musician Harry Styles' chart, where she places a lot of importance on 10th house matters and it maybe hurt other areas of her life or made people more interested in secretive things about her - an aura of mystery. I do remember an interview from her a few years ago where she said something about how it can be hard for her to know what her own personality is because she is so busy being other people. Some say Phoneix got too wrapped up into characters also.

I have mentioned Harry Styles in another thread before, and I think he has a very interesting chart where the 1st and 7th rulers are in between the Sun, the 10th ruler, in an angular house. I would interpret this as someone who repeatedly struggles with making 7th house connections throughout his life, especially out in the open, due to his 10th house matters being more important to him. Many people speculate on his sexuality and that is understandable with such a chart. Ultimately, the 10th house matters are still a choice to him and he could give that up or tone it down to focus on his 7th if he really wanted to and it seems important to him given it is a focal point. If I were his astrologer, I would tell him he is sacrificing 7th (and 1st!) house matters for the 10th and ask him to try to strike a better balance. This is especially true given the fact that his Moon is in the 12th, suggesting that he sacrifices or ignores emotional needs, or maybe does not entirely understand them. Like Phoenix, he might turn to drugs and alcohol as well, because the 1st lord is combust and that might be very overwhelming.

It ultimately depends on the chart what it is emphasizing, but sometimes it stands out, such as being angular or lording the 1st or with the lord of the 1st.
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe that`s why only a few writers and artists have their talent recognized.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 900

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maybe that`s why only a few writers and artists have their talent recognized.


Combustion is extremely common in the charts of famous people, though. Again, look at people such as Mozart, who had Mercury extremely combust as ascendant and 10th ruler in the 5th. He wrote music constantly and was very famous, even while alive. His music is some of the most widely published written works in music. He did have a short life and was constantly sick, though. There is usually some sort of explanation for it but it depends a lot on what it lords in the chart.

As stated, combustion is very common. It is probably less common for someone to not have combustion in their chart or for a planet to be under the beams, mathematically speaking, because if not Mercury or Venus, one of the other planets can be combust within a pretty wide orb.
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
We've had other discussions on the effects of combustion in natal charts at various times over the years. Opinions ranged from it was a powerful force, to it isn't worth mentioning.

The problem seems to be the lack of a universally accepted or near universally accepted definition of what it is that combustion does. If we check some older authors we might see things like it completely robs the planet of its power, which seems more than a little extreme.

What might, and I repeat might, be a good way to look at combustion is the way it is used in horary. In horary it symbolizes things that are hidden, and horary astrologers will tell us that symbolism works well. So perhaps we might wish to look at it as the significance of the planet is hidden from view or perhaps hidden from the native himself. We've all heard, read about, or maybe know people with what seems to be a particular talent who have no idea they have it, Perhaps that's indicated by combustion in a chart. That's just a suggestion.

I don't have Jackie Kennedy's chart in front of me, but her mercurial abilities could be said to have been obscured by her husband's light. He was a popular President with considerable charm, and his presence as well as his job, obscured her abilities. She upgraded the White House with considerable talent, but despite that being something many could not do or could not do as well, it pales in comparison to the things a President does. I agree, that is pure 100% hindsight astrology.

I'm not crazy about the use of the word "heal," in this case. I like to leave that word to medical professionals or home remedies. But I do like the idea that the chart is not a concrete block with our lives chiseled into it. If some of our talents are hidden, then by all means identify the issue and work to bring them out.


In the massive Astrological roots of Hellenic astrology, Josdph Crane says the Greeks had no concept of combustion; that came later and was used by nearly all medieval astrologers.
I wonder if it were the arabs?!

"Traditional astrologers are familiar with the idea of “combustion”: if a planet is within eight degrees of the Sun, it is burnt up by the Sun and is in a weakened condition. Although this concept does not appear in the Hellenistic tradition, its origin may be in the depiction of a planet sunken within the Sun’s beams. Does Bernadette’s Saturn, being in a “sunken” condition, imply that Saturn is no good as a planet for her? If so, this might be a particular problem, as Saturn governs her many planets in Capricorn and Aquarius. Indeed, Saturn’s placement might have proven more difficult for Bernadette if she pursued the worldly achievements of wealth "
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