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is lilith moon accurate?

 
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selene12



Joined: 22 Jun 2019
Posts: 2

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: is lilith moon accurate? Reply with quote

Hey dears, I’m new to astrology and I’m trying to figure out one question. I had uncomfortable situation last time with one astrologer from my country, who saw my lilith in cancer and she told that the best way to finish carmic lesson is to not have any children, cause they will be cathastrophic and I will be a bad mom, so it will cause my children many traumas of childhood. However, I have two doughters already, family and kids are everything to me, I’m really good and supportive mom, I canceled my career and quit the job, just to spend more time with them and to see them growing, my friends keep saying, that they never seen better mom than me, by the way both of my childbirths were super easy and relaxed, that my astrologer is super surprised of it. With Lilith in Cancer, I shouldn’t be like that, right? By the way, my husband has a selene (white) moon on cancer, would it be possible, that it takes away my huge carmic lessons that are based on family category? Would like to get any review or opinion from you! Blessings.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 827

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Selene- I moved this to the natal astrology forum, since this isn't a topic of horary or traditional astrology.

What this astrologer told you sounds preposterous and dangerous to me, given they are basing this on one lesser point (Moon's apogee in your chart) in a sign, that many people will have, including many good mothers. One sign placement, at a point no less, does not make someone a bad mother. Usually when someone says something like this, they are basing it on anecdotal experience that was negative for them, such as having an abusive mother with that placement.

I am curious what the exact wording was that this astrologer said? Did they base this interpretation entirely on this one point?

One big problem with Lilith is that there are three different types, so which one are they even referring to? The Black Moon Lilith is the most common one looked at. Some people regard it as extremely important. I honestly could not even remember what mine was without looking it up and interpretations of mine are ridiculous, in my opinion.

Mine is in Leo in the 2nd and some interpretations on this I can make sense of but can see in other areas of my chart already. Some other interpretations I find ridiculous and made me laugh. One bad assumption someone might make of this is that a person would be stingy, which could be overcome elsewhere, such as in my chart where I have Moon in Sag lording my chart and trine Jupiter in the 2nd (and trine Venus).

Maybe others can comment on its significance but I don't understand its importance, or especially it trumping everything in a chart to support one sweeping generalization.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3421
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi selene12

are you going to go for the bread crumbs on the side of the table, or are you going to go for the main meal? that is how i see this use of Lilith in astrology... personally i would love some astrologer to come along and explain it here to more then just you, but i doubt that is going to happen....

i would say this to anyone serious about astrology, or receiving commentary from an astrologer... and i would apply it to all of life too... - don't believe everything you hear... if you don't have that critical ability, then i think you are better off staying away from something you know next to nothing about.. and, i certainly wouldn't trust one persons comment on any of it either...

regards..
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 827

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James - it is unclear to me of the difference between a male and female's chart with Lilith, so it would be nice to hear some explanations. I heard it shows what a man is drawn to, such as subconscious desires and feelings of obsession for certain types of females (if they like women). Lilith seems to be a feminine energy, so how does this work out in a male's chart and does it even matter much for them especially, I wonder? I did watch one video that said hard aspects from Pluto, Sun or Saturn (or sometimes Uranus) can show unhealthy relationships with women (being a victim of them or victimizing them) and where they dislike strong women, and are more likely to think women are subordinate. When I looked at Trump's chart, he didn't have this, and if anyone should have it, you would think it would be someone like him (his is trine Pluto, though and Ted Bundy had a similar placement in Sag close to the Moon). I guess in a female's chart, hard aspects can show not coming to terms with your own sexual energies and power. It seems obvious that any of this would need to be supported elsewhere.

Supposedly, in synastry, if activated, it can show a very sexually magnetic draw to a person.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3421
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanit - here is an ephemeris for black moon lilith for anyone who wants to look at its location..

https://cafeastrology.com/black-moon-lilith-selena-sedna-ephemeris.html

i suppose it depends on how many points in a chart one wants to use.. i have this point in the middle of capricorn in my chart - conjunct my mars.. i think men are much more drawn to women who reflect their natal moon or venus signs, then this black moon lilith body...

as for trump - the venus-conjunct saturn is a real problem to his chart as i see it..he has married a very conservative looking and type of women ( as i see it) and he has done a bunch of deceitful acts behind her back.. the guy is a creep on this level.. i felt the same way about clinton... perhaps some of his ego in this regard is tied into the mars-neptune-venus config in libra... obama and bush 2 seemed more normal to me in terms of their relationship to their wife, since we are talking about the current usa president.. trump is creepy and i wouldn't trust the guy past the fence post with regard to women, but maybe i am a bit hard assed towards him in this regard... all the conservative front is a pile of bs as i see it..

what i am trying to say here is i would look at the main indicators of attraction in a male or females chart off moon/venus for men and mars/sun for women... i would also look at the 7th house cusp and ruler.. i would skip with black moon lilith myself.. i would also look at connections to the nodal axis as much more central and critical to the connections we make or don't with people generally speaking..
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 827

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James - I don't think it is meant to imply attractions, but more likely subconscious draws to people. It is a dark energy. That was the way it was explained anyway. It did not even sound very positive, but more likely instances where someone may be obsessed with someone who they normally would not be attracted to and are maybe even wrong for, for example. I think most people have had at least one person they have felt drawn to who was not right for them, for whatever reason. Since it rules sort of raw sexuality and power in women, men with it afflicted supposedly have more problems accepting that in women or experience negative sides of it from women.

I have a lot of hard aspects to mine and am finding some info on that a bit interesting, but, like you I am not fully sold on its importance. There are a lot of negative interpretations one can extrapolate from it though, hence the astrologer here jumping to one of the generalizations. For example, mine in the 2nd supposedly can increase the chance of being a criminal, such as a pimp (gain from sex), which is obviously preposterous. However, if you sift through all of the really dramatic interpretations you can kind of make sense of what it might imply in your chart. I guess I am used to doing that anyway with horary because Lilly is very dramatic and negative.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 765

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which Lilith is being discussed here, the Moon's Apogee or the one in the Delphine Jay ephemeris (which I have)?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3421
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tanit,

as i said earlier, unless someone comes along to convince us of it's relevance - it is a mute note in an orchestra of sound coming off the standard chart and symbols used...

fleur -

this is the problem, isn't it? unlike say mars or venus which you can read volumes on, it is something we have little to no reference about!!! see the ephemeris link i shared above for what i was looking at..
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selene12



Joined: 22 Jun 2019
Posts: 2

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
tanit - here is an ephemeris for black moon lilith for anyone who wants to look at its location..

https://cafeastrology.com/black-moon-lilith-selena-sedna-ephemeris.html

i suppose it depends on how many points in a chart one wants to use.. i have this point in the middle of capricorn in my chart - conjunct my mars.. i think men are much more drawn to women who reflect their natal moon or venus signs, then this black moon lilith body...

as for trump - the venus-conjunct saturn is a real problem to his chart as i see it..he has married a very conservative looking and type of women ( as i see it) and he has done a bunch of deceitful acts behind her back.. the guy is a creep on this level.. i felt the same way about clinton... perhaps some of his ego in this regard is tied into the mars-neptune-venus config in libra... obama and bush 2 seemed more normal to me in terms of their relationship to their wife, since we are talking about the current usa president.. trump is creepy and i wouldn't trust the guy past the fence post with regard to women, but maybe i am a bit hard assed towards him in this regard... all the conservative front is a pile of bs as i see it..

what i am trying to say here is i would look at the main indicators of attraction in a male or females chart off moon/venus for men and mars/sun for women... i would also look at the 7th house cusp and ruler.. i would skip with black moon lilith myself.. i would also look at connections to the nodal axis as much more central and critical to the connections we make or don't with people generally speaking..


I have lilith in cancer 10th house. I think there is some karmic debt, as my daughters haven't harmonious planets in their charts, so as I read my debt was to make harmony in the family. Does somebody has a more info about karmic debts that comes from lilith ?
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srsedna



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 13

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Selene,

I think it is safe to forget about Lilith and everything this "astrologer" told you about it. Astrologers who give such emphasis to novelty factors, focusing that much on a fragment of your chart are usually trying to hide their own lack of mastery of the foundations of astrology.

Just keep loving your daughters and do whatever you believe will be the most beneficial for them, whatever helps them become free, peace-loving individuals, whatever diminishes their suffering. Do it because you love them and because it is your responsibility as a mother, not to pay your karmic debts (remember "whoever wants to save their soul will lose it").

Fraternally,
sr_sedna
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 827

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur - I was talking about the Moon's apogee Lilith (Black Moon Lilith), since it is the one most commonly used and discussed online (and the one you can select in astro.com from most commonly used points). Whenever someone says "Lilith" they are usually referring to that point, so I am guessing that is what the astrologer was talking about when they gave Selene a reading. As James mentioned, the fact that there are at least 3 that people refer to only adds to frustrations of predictions.

Selene - this astrologer sounds like a karmic astrologer and we can all say they are making silly claims but it is ultimately up to their background on how they come to these conclusions. Do I think Lilith in Cancer in the 10th has bad karma and will be a bad mother? Not from this point, no. Like I said, there are a lot of doom and gloom descriptions of Lilith. I gave an example of a common one I saw for my placement - 2nd house in Leo, but ultimately I have dignified Jupiter in that house lording my ascendant ruler, so how could Lilith even come close to trumping that? Maybe I give money/resources away too freely, but what bad karma could come from that? For any bad placement, there could be something that might mitigate it and if you have other indicators of being a nurturing and good person, I highly doubt this placement is going to override that.

If someone claims you are a bad mother and will have a tough life, they definitely need more to go off of. That is something you could likely predict in a chart but I don't believe anyone is destined to be a certain way and it is ultimately up to you. I also do not believe one point predicts everything. For example, having a good royal star on an angle does not automatically mean someone will be rich and famous. If you did have bad karma, whatever that implies based on your belief system, there are ways to address that in pretty much any belief system. In my own, I seek prayer. Sometimes bad predictions can be a self fulfilling prophecy so it is important to take charge of your own destiny. I have had some incorrect readings myself from astrologers I have paid. I am sorry if this is taking a toll on you psychologically but the fact that you posted this question already shows you disagree with it. Ask yourself if this astrologer was 100% right about everything that they said besides that and that should tell you they could be wrong as well. No matter how good an astrologer is, they are not infallible.
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