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prince harry and megan baby boy
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1483
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
There are inconsistencies with baby Archie's chart that especially do not synch with Prince Harry and William's charts. Meghan's chart needs to be rectified because at least sidereally, her rising sign is right on the cusp. The rising sign is especially important in Indian astrology. I just don't have a lot of time right now to do that.

I haven't had much time for the forum recently, but since there are questions about how the 5:26 birth time might link with other members of the royal family, I'm going to look at the KP/Khullar very precise methods of rectification to see what turns up. I've tested these methods with my own family (three children) and so far they have worked. But I want to look at Victoria's nine children in relation to their parents as well as the children of William and Harry.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
Meghan's chart needs to be rectified because at least sidereally, her rising sign is right on the cusp. The rising sign is especially important in Indian astrology. I just don't have a lot of time right now to do that.

I have to apologize for the highly technical analysis below, but everyone can understand that Prince Harry's sidereal ascendant is ruled by Jupiter, and this connects with Meghan's chart.

I’d say that Megan definitely has a sidereal Cancer ascendant. Here's why: According to KP/Khullar theory (Kalamsa and Cuspal Interlinks) a sub-division of the ascendant degree has to reflect the nakshatra (star) of the Moon. Megan’s Moon is in the Moon’s star of sidereal Virgo. With Cancer rising the Moon comes into the equation, but I don’t think that’s quite good enough.

If her ascendant is between 0 deg 36 minutes and 0 deg 43 minutes of Cancer, this gives the small Rahu subdivision. Rahu can’t rule a sign, but it’s in Cancer, so this brings the Ascendant/lunar influence into the proper relationship to her Moon’s nakshatra/star.

But there is another convincing point for the first degree of sidereal Cancer rising for Meghan. Harry’s ascendant is sidereal Sagittarius. With the Krishnamurti ayanamsa Jupiter is placed at 10 Sag 01. This places Jupiter at 11 minutes of navamsa Cancer, conjunct both Meghan’s natal ascendant and her navamsa ascendant.

These calculations are from Solar Fire 5. Newer versions of the program may be more exact in calculating astrological minutes. I’ve tested the ascendant degree and minutes in three astrological programs, and they all disagree on the precise minutes and seconds of the rising degree. There is also a minute or two difference in planetary positions between programs, and many more when it comes to seconds.

So to get the proper small KP/Khullar sub-divisions, different software programs may give different minutes in time for the ascendant which would have to be adjusted. This means different programs would give slightly different clock times for the same sub-divisions in degrees/minutes/seconds. All my astrological software is rather dated, so perhaps the newer programs don’t have this problem. Here is an example of the differences I’m finding:

For clock time 10:57:45, the ascendant is:

3 deg 56' 45" Solar Fire 5
3 deg 57' 02" Parshara’s Light 7
4 deg 05' 07" True Astrology (Indian) for cusp setting

So to get the proper sub-division the True Astrology birth time has to be set for 10:57:16 rather than 10:57:45. In this case, the correct sub-division runs from 3 deg 49 min to 3 deg 59 min. It’s this kind of precision that the KP/Khullar systems use for rectification.

Next I'll look at Archie's birth time. There have to be certain relationships to the birth charts of the parents (Houses of the mother and father)

Reference:
Horary Astrology and Cuspal Interlinks by S.K. Khullar (Sagar Publications, 2006.
Key to Learn Sub Sub and Cuspal Interlinks Theory b S.P. Khullar (Sagar Publications, 2008)
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Mon May 13, 2019 7:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
i wonder how you would interpret the chart in sidereal? the venus becomes exalted, and the mars - now ruler of the ascendant is in deteriment and co rules the ascendant and 8th... and of course this mars is caught up in an opposition to jupiter in the 8th as well.. perhaps it implies a degree of rebelliousness towards all that he has inherited at a later date? this is just speculation on my part and we will have to wait til much later...

If we forsake psychology for the moment, the fact that Jupiter gives its full partile aspect to Mars simply says that the child (ascendant lord Mars) is an exalted and royal (Jupiter) birth. Jupiter is 9th lord (equal cusps), and 9th house Sagittarius is also the father's (sidereal) ascendant sign.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
James wrote:
Quote:
i wonder how you would interpret the chart in sidereal? the venus becomes exalted, and the mars - now ruler of the ascendant is in deteriment and co rules the ascendant and 8th... and of course this mars is caught up in an opposition to jupiter in the 8th as well.. perhaps it implies a degree of rebelliousness towards all that he has inherited at a later date? this is just speculation on my part and we will have to wait til much later...

If we forsake psychology for the moment, the fact that Jupiter gives its full partile aspect to Mars simply says that the child (ascendant lord Mars) is an exalted and royal (Jupiter) birth. Jupiter is 9th lord (equal cusps), and 9th house Sagittarius is also the father's (sidereal) ascendant sign.

Interesting observation.
Scorpio rises from 4:49 am to 5:52:55 am (KP ayanamsa) at London on that day.
That puts Archies Jupiter in the 12th from Harry's ascendant though...and Ju gandhanta. What omens happened around sunrise in London on that day would be interesting to know. Were there birds of prey and jackles howling outside the hospital? I wonder. LOL
As telling as the Ju/Ma/9HSg, I think Archies Moon conjunct Harry's Rahu in his 6th house. Mo caught up in Harry's Ra/Ke axis.
Archies exact Mars fourth aspect to Harry's Sun.
Archies Venus to Harry's Venus by opposition, exact.
Harry's Sa on Archies descendant.
Still, there is an overall predictive dissonance with Archies chart to Harry's regarding Dad's longevity, this is not seen in Williams chart either. I'm going to verify/rectify Meghan's chart when I have time because hers is key. I will take some time to digest your article on Meghans chart too. Thanks Therese.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:


For clock time 10:57:45, the ascendant is:

3 deg 56' 45" Solar Fire 5
3 deg 57' 02" Parshara’s Light 7
4 deg 05' 07" True Astrology (Indian) for cusp setting

So to get the proper sub-division the True Astrology birth time has to be set for 10:57:16 rather than 10:57:45. In this case, the correct sub-division runs from 3 deg 49 min to 3 deg 59 min. It’s this kind of precision that the KP/Khullar systems use for rectification.

Hi Therese: I follow the argument pretty well... Thanks for the exellent and detailed expo. Still digesting all this and will report on my rectification soon.

A small thing really, but the clock time seems a wee bit off.
You don't expressly label it Universal Time but...
Is the time zone conversion wrong in the software ???
Meghan's birth time zone is PDT 7W (105) so 04:57 PDT is 11:57 hours UT.

You mention Krishnamurti ayanamsa for Harry's Jupiter but seeing the variations between the various asc outputs compared to what I get in SJS for 04:57:45 PDT are these for KP or Khullers ayanamsa?
I assume KP but I don't have Khullers ayanamsa in my software so I couldn't tell.

[For 4:57:45 PDT using SJS 9 I get 3Ca14 KP ascendant just for another software comparison.]
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi AJ,

The example of different calculations I gave didn't relate to the royal family, but was a personal project I was working on. For the birth times of Meghan, Harry and Archie I followed the AstroDatabank times and used Solar Fire 5 for calculations:

Meghan: 4:46 am PDT: Asc 0 Cancer 47
Harry: 4:20 pm BST: Asc 17 Sag 49
Archie: 5:26 am BST: Asc 18 Aries 37

Quote:
You mention Krishnamurti ayanamsa for Harry's Jupiter but seeing the variations between the various asc outputs compared to what I get in SJS for 04:57:45 PDT are these for KP or Khullers ayanamsa?
I assume KP but I don't have Khullers ayanamsa in my software so I couldn't tell.
[For 4:57:45 PDT using SJS 9 I get 3Ca14 KP ascendant just for another software comparison.]

I'm sorry, what is SJS?
The 57:45 time was related to my personal project.
I used the Krishnamurti ayanamsa. The Khullar ayanamsa is apparently very close to Lahiri. Of course the ayanamsa is critical for any work with Khullar's concepts. This is a developing system, and I think there will be modifications and changes as research goes on.

I'll check Harry's Jupiter in my three different programs. Solar Fire 5 which I used doesn't display seconds of arc.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ, could you please post the Krishnamurti ascendants your software gives for the AstroDatabank birth times for Meghan, Harry, and Archie as noted in my previous post? Does your software give seconds of arc?

Maybe we should move the software comparison discussion to the sidereal forum?
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Hi AJ,
The example of different calculations I gave didn't relate to the royal family, but was a personal project I was working on. For the birth times of Meghan, Harry and Archie I followed the AstroDatabank times and used Solar Fire 5 for calculations:
I didn't realize it was for a different chart. Just assumed they were software variations for a time you used or were for illustrative purposes for rectifying Meghan's chart by the method you used maybe to show a refining technique. I see I read more into it LOL

SJS is Sri Jyoti Star software that I use for Indian astrology. It does not display to seconds of arc, only minutes. Harry's natal Ju is 10Sg01 according to SJS. using a BT of 16:20.
The ascendants are the same in SJS as you got from Solar Fire
Meghan: 4:46 am PDT: Asc 0 Ca 47
Harry: 4:20 pm BST: Asc 17 Sg 49
Archie: 5:26 am BST: Asc 18 Ar 37

PS
James and Therese: I think we should we bump the whole Meghan rectification over to the sidereal forum since it is the thread of the moment? Any objections?Don't want to step on any tropical toes and it is better suited there topically. I good juncture would be Therese's analysis to begin the thread.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi therese and aj,

lets start a new thread if you want to do some work on megans chart in sidereal. thanks!

fwiw - here is megans data off adb..
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Meghan,_Duchess_of_Sussex

source notes for the aa rated time are - Birth certificate in hand from Viktor E.

Craft quotes same data from "Meghan: A Hollywood Princess" by Andrew Morton, pgs. 8 & 22, "at 4:46 in the morning of August 4, 1981 in West Park Hospital in Canoga Park in Los Angeles"

harrys chart on adb - https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harry,_Duke_of_Sussex

source notes for the a rating - Dana Holliday quotes news on date; Sy Scholfield confirms same in March 2008.

Scholfield quotes official royal announcement in "Court Circular," The Times, Monday, 17 September 1984, p. 14: "September 15: The Princess of Wales was safely delivered of a son at 4.20 pm today"; "Debut of Prince Henry Charles Albert David: Cheering crowds as Princess leaves hospital," by Alan Hamilton, The Times, Monday, 17 September 1984, p. 1: "[At] St Mary's Hospital, Paddington [London] ... the Princess delivered the 6lb 14oz boy at 4.20 on Saturday afternoon."
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link discussing sidereal rectification. I transferred the posts as best I could. They all went into a single message. James and AJ, if there are errors in the transfer of your posts, please let me know.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=111080#111080

"Sidereal Rectification - Royal Family"
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james_m



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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks therese!! onward and upward! james
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Map wrote:
Quote:
I am not disputing Taurus asc for 5:26 am. I am doubtful about the very TOB that has been declared. It has to be something else than 5:26 am. Tropical Taurus ascendant chart is very weak to represent a royal chart. Same is the case with sidereal aries as well.

Map, I am wondering why you say that the sidereal Aries ascendant is weak? An exalted Sun is in the first house, Moon is exalted in Taurus, and 9th lord Jupiter fully aspects the ascendant lord Mars. Venus is also exalted in Pisces. Jupiter is in its own sign of Pisces in the navamsa which helps to counteract its 29 degree natal location.

The tropical zodiac has been used for psychology, but can not be so good at showing concrete events and status, especially when using planetary and house dispositors.
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James - I can move the thread to sidereal if you want. The chart does seem to make more sense in that system given what we know, so it is understandable for others to want to talk about that. I guess time will tell if the western chart makes sense.
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map



Joined: 23 Nov 2013
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:28 am    Post subject: Chart Reply with quote

Therese wrote:
Quote:

Map, I am wondering why you say that the sidereal Aries ascendant is weak?


Mars in enemy's sign and 8th lord and Jupiter owning 12th also in 8th is a weak combo as per me. Venus is exalted in enemy's sign. It may not be as i think.
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james_m



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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tanit, but i am thinking leave it here and hopefully those who wish to discuss the sidereal chart, like map responding to therese, can carry it over to the new thread that threse has created on the sidereal forum... that would be ideal... those who wish to discuss the tropical chart and etc, can do so here... how does that sound?

map, therese and aj.. could you please continue to have the sidereal comment talk on thereses thread? i realize i have created a bit of a monster posting in tropical and sidereal, which reflects my personal journey, but if you could help me in this regard, i would appreciate it.. thanks! see below..

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10511
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